Talk:Longbow
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Sword and Dragon info[edit]
Would someone mind explaining what information needs to be imported from Starterbook Sword and Dragon? I've looked through the book and I can't see anything that isn't already here. Thanks!--Mbear 16:52, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
- The tag is pointless. I think someone realized the product features his 'Mech and included the tag without bothering to acutally do the work and include any info... seeing how Sword and Dragon is much older than the introduction of moratorium tags to BTW. Not very helpful editing.
- Trusting your word and without double-checking myself, I have removed the tag. Frabby 17:10, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
Longbow LGB-OW[edit]
According to this page, the LGB-OW variant drops 2 LRM-5 launchers, 2 medium lasers, and armor for more speed. According to the LGB-OW record sheet in the back of "Sword and Dragon", it still has its 2 LRM-5, but has dropped the medium lasers in favor of a single small laser. The other info (armor and speed) is correct. Can anyone verify this? --Iueras 01:43, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'm in TRO:3039 right now, and I don't see it depicted as the entry indicates. I don't have the RS, so I'll let you confirm if my edits match the LGB-OW RS. Hope this helps.--Rev (talk|contribs) 03:00, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Looks good now, thanks. Although now that you point it out, the entry in TRO:3039 seems to imply that the LGB-OW was the original model and the LGB-7Q was a less commercially successful variant. If so, should the page be changed to reflect that? --Iueras 11:16, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- IMO Yes, but Sarna policy seems to be first TRO appearance takes precedence. Its muddy, ideally the "classic"/first version of many designs like the Wolfhound and Cataphract should be the 3025 tech versions rather than the TRO3050 versions(first TRO) appearance, but then if we go for first version we'd be having primitive tech versions of some classic designs replacing the TRO30235 versions. Cyc 11:51, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Gotcha. So, since the first Longbow in a TRO was in the 1995 TRO:3058 as the LGB-7Q, that one is listed first - even though the text in 1995's TRO:3058 says it was an upgrade to the LGB-OW to fix some shortcomings - since the actual entry was for the LGB-7Q and not the LGB-OW. Have I got that right? I'm new around here so I don't want to step on toes. --Iueras 15:20, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- I believe you have the right of it. The Longbow is one of the more problematic designs with regards to that because it has appeared in so many different books. --Scaletail 22:38, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Gotcha. So, since the first Longbow in a TRO was in the 1995 TRO:3058 as the LGB-7Q, that one is listed first - even though the text in 1995's TRO:3058 says it was an upgrade to the LGB-OW to fix some shortcomings - since the actual entry was for the LGB-7Q and not the LGB-OW. Have I got that right? I'm new around here so I don't want to step on toes. --Iueras 15:20, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- If I may, the original introduction for the LGB-OW Longbow was in a Fanzine back in the late 1980's. An assault-class fire support machine this original model has 2 LRM-20 launchers, 2 LRM-5 launchers, with speed on a 4/6 platform; but in return only carried a single small laser and lacked armor for its size. This model was Canonized and found in the FASA "Record Sheets*3055 & 3058" but was never published as far as I can find in any actual FASA TRO but has been seen in at least one published FASA module. The LGB-OW image was among those that became the "Unseen" because of copywrite due to its origin in another Japanese anime.
- IMO Yes, but Sarna policy seems to be first TRO appearance takes precedence. Its muddy, ideally the "classic"/first version of many designs like the Wolfhound and Cataphract should be the 3025 tech versions rather than the TRO3050 versions(first TRO) appearance, but then if we go for first version we'd be having primitive tech versions of some classic designs replacing the TRO30235 versions. Cyc 11:51, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- Looks good now, thanks. Although now that you point it out, the entry in TRO:3039 seems to imply that the LGB-OW was the original model and the LGB-7Q was a less commercially successful variant. If so, should the page be changed to reflect that? --Iueras 11:16, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
- To correct this problem and keep with the BT universe a popular battlemech the LBG-7Q was introduced in the 1995 TRO:3058 as noted above by Scaletail. This model had a different performance profile with a slower speed but better close-in weapons, armor protection, but retained the same LRM launchers carried before, with a variant being Artemis IV enhanced. The image was a new sculpted miniature commissioned for the TRO: 3058 and so prevented any copywrite issues. However this new model of the Longbow was not popular with BT players for either performance of the design or the asthetics of the miniatures image which many felt was either too "tall", "thin", or "lacked a certain something".
- In 2003 the TRO:Project Phoenix was released that addressed the issue of the well loved original miniatures from the 3025 era found in the original 1985 TRO:3025. Among the redesigned and reissued battlemechs was the LGB-12C Longbow. This design is a fine developmental example of the previous Longbows being well armored with 2 LRM-20, 2 LRM-15, that are all Artemis IV enhanced along with 3 ER Small Lasers for close-in defense with a movement profile of 3/5. More importantly a new miniature was commissioned TRO:Project Phoenix that from an asthetics point delivers. This new image has been well recieved by BT players who compare it favorably to the original Longbow as its look harks back considerably to the first LGB-OW of the long-ago 1980's. --[Vaidom]
- just of of curiosity, which anime was the longbow borrowed? It doesn't look too similar to a Macross Phalanx...--Grimlock (talk) 11:31, 21 December 2012 (PST)
- No, the original "3025" LGB-OW Longbow definitely used the Phalanx art, only really seen in bulk via the Ral Patha mini, its just FASA got an early re-do with the TRO3058 LGB-7Q version then a second go with Project Phoenix. Cyc (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2012 (PST)
- I have a feeling that I first heard about the Longbow via contacts in MechForce UK - I h ave a feeling it may have been their fanzine it was introduced in. Do we have anyone around here with copies of their fanzine who could maybe supply the original picture and date? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 13:32, 21 December 2012 (PST)
- No, the original "3025" LGB-OW Longbow definitely used the Phalanx art, only really seen in bulk via the Ral Patha mini, its just FASA got an early re-do with the TRO3058 LGB-7Q version then a second go with Project Phoenix. Cyc (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2012 (PST)
- just of of curiosity, which anime was the longbow borrowed? It doesn't look too similar to a Macross Phalanx...--Grimlock (talk) 11:31, 21 December 2012 (PST)
- In 2003 the TRO:Project Phoenix was released that addressed the issue of the well loved original miniatures from the 3025 era found in the original 1985 TRO:3025. Among the redesigned and reissued battlemechs was the LGB-12C Longbow. This design is a fine developmental example of the previous Longbows being well armored with 2 LRM-20, 2 LRM-15, that are all Artemis IV enhanced along with 3 ER Small Lasers for close-in defense with a movement profile of 3/5. More importantly a new miniature was commissioned TRO:Project Phoenix that from an asthetics point delivers. This new image has been well recieved by BT players who compare it favorably to the original Longbow as its look harks back considerably to the first LGB-OW of the long-ago 1980's. --[Vaidom]
The problem is that there were many different "first appearances" of the Longbow, all with slightly different stats: One, without image, was in the Sornson's Sabres scenario pack. It erroneously called Cedrik Sveinsson's 'Mech a 60-ton design but the stats clearly marked it an 80-tonner. Then there was a TRO-style writeup in FASA's StarDate magazine, with the unseen image. StarDate was canonical, but isn't anymore as per the incumbent Line Developer's ruling on what is canon. The Longbow didn't feature in TRO 3025 or 3026, but the German Hardware-Handbuch 3031 (expanded translation of TRO3026) featured the translated StarDate writeup, complete with the unseen pic. The first still-canonical Longbow image came in TRO3055. I am honestly unsure if that art is unseen, as it looks pretty different from the previous StarDate image.
As for canonical variants, check the MUL. For fluff, check TRO3039. The original fluff from StarDate wasn't used at all except in Germany. Frabby (talk) 14:11, 21 December 2012 (PST)
Breaking into this discussion a couple years later, I think appropriate parts of the article can be reworded to indicate the LGB-7Q is a variant of the LGB-0W while still keeping the 7Q as the design in the infobox. I will see what I can come up with if nobody has any objections. --Cache (talk) 13:57, 1 January 2015 (PST)