Editing Category talk:Star League Defense Force Commands

{{WikiProject Military Commands}}
==Question==
I found in the [[The Star League]] book, a discrepance. I found two 210th Mechanized Infantry Divison's, the 1st on page 147  and the 2nd on page 153, Fifth Army LV Corps '''210th Mechanized Infantry Division (The Errai Laserers)''', i am a little bit confused about this, i think it is a print failur or...??? Have any one a answer.--06:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
:''copied from the response made to the query on my talk page.
:LOL! With how deep you have gotten in those rolls, I'm surprised this is only the 1st mistake! 
:No problem: I interpret that as meaning the unit was divided between the two different different regions. It had operational elements in both the Draconis Combine and the Capellan Confederation. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 11:45, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

== All SLDF Commands need updates from FM:SLDF ==

{{Update Needed|[[Field Manual: SLDF]]}}

In order to prevent the Updates Needed page from growing to insane size, I'm marking this page as needing the update. Please select a unit on the category page and add content from Field Manual: SLDF as appropriate. Thanks!--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]]<sup>([[User_talk:Mbear|talk]])</sup> 12:25, 15 November 2012 (PST)

== Star League commands order ==

I've seen that the Star League commands order is different from the rest. Units assigned in sub-level commands do appear also in the root (something that does not happen in other Miltary Commands Categories. Am I right if I consider this Category incorrectly done?

I also think there are categories missing that should help reorganize this a bit better. I have my idea, but suggestions are welcomed.--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 11:01, 16 July 2019 (EDT)
:I think it is just a case of nobody has sat down and done it. The SLDF is huge compared to any other faction and I also think there is the issue of how to do it. We usually use Regiments and Brigades as our standard basis, SLDF uses Divisions (Similar issue but slightly different with ComStar / Word Divisions) so what do you use as your standard to align it with the rest of the wiki?--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 17:00, 16 July 2019 (EDT)
::I would say Armies to be the only think at "General" level and then create structures for each of the other orders (Brigades, Corps, Divisions...)--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 03:42, 17 July 2019 (EDT)
:::I do not often delve into the SLDF stuff, But I do not think I have ever searched for an Army, I can only ever remember looking for Divisions and Regiments. Based on my own usage, having Armys as the general category would have no real useful functionality at all.--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 04:04, 17 July 2019 (EDT)
::::The other option is to have everything in sub-folders, as there are a huge amount of Divisions and Regiments. Maybe the best is to put everything first in subfolders all the units that belong to an existing sub-folder and then decide how to continue.--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 05:20, 17 July 2019 (EDT)
:::::I would leave it as it is and seek input from more people--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 06:42, 17 July 2019 (EDT)
::::::How can we do this?--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 10:13, 17 July 2019 (EDT)
:We seem to have two different systems developing within the subcategories, one that works on command level and one that works on unit role.--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 09:20, 21 July 2019 (EDT)

== New sub-categories to be created ==

After a long review, we have just 44 entries in general and the rest are (I feel) well organized. Now, on this 44, the only new category I could imagine is '''Star League Defense Force Commands - Combat Vehicle Units''' to put here all the tank units, armored units, heavy tank and heavy armor and wheeled armour, though even I am not sure it is the best tactic. Ideas?--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 03:55, 22 July 2019 (EDT)
:The term I usually used see used in connection to armor and infantry is "conventional forces" so maybe something like that? As for the over all re-organisation, I do not feel we have made any real improvement over what was already there, It is actually possible that we are worse than we where because having stuff like a category for "French Regiments" but no context as to what a French Regiment is in a 2,000+ planet sci-fi universe suddenly looks really weird.--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 04:23, 22 July 2019 (EDT)
::I'm open to delete sub-categories as this is very personal, and no problem on that. What we have won is clarity as units were listed both in general category and in sub-categories, making at least possible to navigate this. By the way, this is what we have done in all other commands, where units in sub-categories are never listed in general category.--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 04:26, 22 July 2019 (EDT)

This is the list of categories:
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Army
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Artillery
*: Star League Defense Force Auxiliary Corps
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Battle Regiment
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Brigade
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - CAAN Marine Regiment
*: Star League Defense Force Corps
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - BattleMech Division
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Dragoon Regiment
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - French Regiments
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Heavy Assault Regiment
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Hussar Regiment
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Independent Aero Wing
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Infantry Division
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Jump Infantry Division
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Light Horse Regiment
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Mechanized Infantry Division
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Naval Commands
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Regimental Combat Team
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Special Forces
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - Striker Regiment
*: Star League Defense Force Commands - SLDF Task Forces

It is true that French Regiments and maybe even SLDF Task Forces might not be worth a category, but for me the rest are giving types of units which can be quickly seen as specific organizations. Ideas?--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 04:30, 22 July 2019 (EDT)
:::It still does not quite match how we do things other command categories though as the "front line" commands are usually still in the general category.. That would mean dumping all the divisions back in, and mostly undoes the work you have just done.  This is why it has been left alone as it is a pain in the ass.

:::French Regiments should probably be rolled into something else, Task Forces are really more an extension of the Operations articles than actual commands. [[Operation SERPENT]] redirects to [[Task Force Serpent]], so maybe we should switch that around and it would at least solve one problem.--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 05:26, 22 July 2019 (EDT)
::::I accept any idea except dumping all the divisions back in... which for a force this big in reality is a step back on clarity as it hides all this small commands, that or we create a dump category for them, which I like even less. With their own category, even if not very nice, it is lean.
Now:
* [[Operation SERPENT]] --> '''Solved'''
* Star League Defense Force Commands - French Regiments --> Put them in general category?
* Task Forces --> Moved to Category Operations where it makes more sense for them to be. --> '''Solved'''

--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 11:06, 22 July 2019 (EDT)

== Proposed Organization of the Star League Forces ==

I've come up with an idea on how to organize the Star League Forces using as reference Historical: Liberation of Terra 1

The structure of the final sub-categories would be:
:* Star League Defense Force Commands - Army
:* Star League Defense Force Command Corps : Rename Star League Defense Force Corps
:* Star League Defense Force Commands - Artillery
:* Star League Defense Force Auxiliary Corps
:* Star League Defense Force Commands - Star League Old Terran Commands
:* Star League Defense Force Commands - Regimental Combat Team
:* Star League Defense Force Commands - Special Forces

:* Star League Defense Force Commands - Battlemech Regiment (NEW)
::* 	Star League Defense Force Commands - Battlemech Line Regiments (NEW)
:::*		Heavy Assault : Star League Defense Force Commands - Heavy Assault Regiment
:::*		Battle : Star League Defense Force Commands - Battle Regiment
:::*		Striker : Star League Defense Force Commands - Striker Regiment
::*	Independent Regiments - (root) Star League Defense Force Commands - Independent Regiment
:::*		Dragoon : Star League Defense Force Commands - Dragoon Regiment
:::*		Hussar : Star League Defense Force Commands - Hussar Regiment
:::*		Light Horse : Star League Defense Force Commands - Light Horse Regiment
:::*		CAAN : Star League Defense Force Commands - CAAN Marine Regiment
<br>
:*Star League Defense Force Commands - Aerospace Wing(NEW)
::*	Ground Aero Wing (GAW) : Star League Defense Force Commands - Ground Aero Wing (NEW)
::*	Fleet Aero Wing (FAW) : Star League Defense Force Commands - Fleet Aero Wing (NEW)
::*	Independent Aero Wing (IAW) : Star League Defense Force Commands - Independent Aero Wing
<br>
:* Navy - Star League Defense Force Commands - Naval Commands
<br>
:* Armor - Distribute "Star League Defense Force Commands - Armor Commands" among them
::*	Light : Star League Defense Force Commands - Light Armor Commands (NEW)
::*	Medium : Star League Defense Force Commands - Medium Armor Commands (NEW)
::*	Heavy : Star League Defense Force Commands - Heavy Armor Commands (NEW)
::*	Tracked : Star League Defense Force Commands - Tracked Armor Commands (NEW)
::*	Wheeled : Star League Defense Force Commands - Wheeled Armor Commands (NEW)
::*	Hoover : Star League Defense Force Commands - Hoover Armor Commands (NEW)
<br>
:* Infantry Regiment
::*	Mechanized Infantry : Star League Defense Force Commands - Mechanized Infantry Regiment (NEW)
::*	Motorized Infantry : Star League Defense Force Commands - Motorized Infantry Regiment (NEW)
::*	Jump Infantry : Star League Defense Force Commands - Jump Infantry Regiment (NEW)
::*	Grunt Infantry : Star League Defense Force Commands - Grunt Infantry Regiment (NEW)
<br>
:* Star League Defense Force Commands - Divisions (NEW)
::*	BattleMech : Star League Defense Force Commands - BattleMech Division
::*	Mechanized Infantry: Star League Defense Force Commands - Mechanized Infantry Division
::*	Infantry : Star League Defense Force Commands - Infantry Division
::*	Jump Infantry : Star League Defense Force Commands - Jump Infantry Division
::*	Armored : Star League Defense Force Commands - Armored Division (NEW)
<br>
:* Star League Defense Force Commands - Brigade
::*	BattleMech : Star League Defense Force Commands - BattleMech Brigade (NEW)
::*	Mechanized Infantry: Star League Defense Force Commands - Mechanized Infantry Brigade (NEW)
::*	Infantry : Star League Defense Force Commands - Infantry Brigade (NEW)
::*	Jump Infantry : Star League Defense Force Commands - Jump Infantry Brigade (NEW)
::*	Armored : Star League Defense Force Commands - Armored Brigade (NEW)

And once everything is categorized under them, I would put as suggested Regiments and Divisions in the Root Category.

What is your feeling on this?--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 08:52, 7 August 2019 (EDT)
:My initial thought is that it is over complicated and at points breaks things down simply to break them down (for example [[34th Fleet Aero Wing]] and [[568th Grunt Infantry Regiment]] will be single command categories from what I can tell and I don't think we have any Ground Aero Wings that I can find so why a category?) and then on the other end there are sections where the system breaks itself (Striker regiments being listed as Independent Regiments yet some of them being part of RCTs. I commented on the 21st July that we had two systems developing and this has exactly the same problem but on a much larger scale. I think we need to split the commands up by role/type or size and use EXTREMELY broad categories.--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 09:29, 7 August 2019 (EDT)
::Pserratv, this is a huge effort and thank you for taking it on and even more impressively, providing a semi-logical way of doing it. ;) 
::Dmon raises good points, but I think the single-entry categories are the exception, not the rule. Most commands will fit into one (or more) categories that Pserratv has defined.
{{Quote|I think we need to split the commands up by role/type '''or''' size and use EXTREMELY broad categories.}}
::Does "role/type" mean Mechanized Infantry Division vs. BattleMech Division? Is it Dragoon Regiment vs. Battle Regiment? Something else?
::Are the role/type mutually exclusive with size?
::The problem with EXTREMELY broad categories is that they may be too broad and therefore useless.

::My only comments about Pserratv's suggestion:
:: 1. I'd like a category for Royal Commands
:: 2. Category names should probably be plural, that is:
:* Star League Defense Fos rce Commands - Brigade'''S'''
::*	BattleMech : Star League Defense Force Commands - BattleMech Brigade'''S''' (NEW)
::*	Mechanized Infantry: Star League Defense Force Commands - Mechanized Infantry Brigade'''S''' (NEW)

Instead of the current
:* Star League Defense Force Commands - Brigade
::*	BattleMech : Star League Defense Force Commands - BattleMech Brigade (NEW)
::*	Mechanized Infantry: Star League Defense Force Commands - Mechanized Infantry Brigade (NEW)
--[[User:Mbear|Mbear]]<sup>([[User_talk:Mbear|talk]])</sup> 10:06, 7 August 2019 (EDT)

:::As MBear says, there are few single unit categories and most will have several entries. As why to create categories with nothing, it is for sake of memory. This is how the Star League ordered things, though then authors haven't created at least a unit for all this cases, bad luck. But I would prefer to have them there for a future need, otherwise part of the effort now done will be lost as a potential unit might be misplaced. THat said, I'm a bit paranoid. If my suggestion is mostly accepted, using plurals is no problem, same as creating an special category for those Royal Units.--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 11:40, 7 August 2019 (EDT)

::I need to read through this again a couple of times (it's ten minutes before bedtime, so I'm a bit hazy) but I do have a few of questions:
:: 1. Would all of the SLDF commands listed in Historical: Reunification War also fit neatly into this structure?
:: 2. Where will SLDF units associated with the Expeditionary Bureau fit? (I think that's the name - as I said, I'm a bit fuzzy atm)
:: 3. Where will the army group/ad hoc formations from Historical: Liberation of Terra Vol 2 fit?
:: [[User:BrokenMnemonic|BrokenMnemonic]] ([[User talk:BrokenMnemonic|talk]]) 17:05, 7 August 2019 (EDT)

::::Honestly, I think you're overdoing the category tree. We aren't categorizing House units by battalions and companies either. The real work is the article structure where every SLDF army/division/brigade etc. needs to list all its next-tier subunits. A category listing all SLDF regiments is useless; but in an article about the 1234th Brigade I'd expect to have links to its parent division and all its regiments.<br />Essentially I am advocating the same approach here as for House units as laid down in [[Policy:Notability]] (near the end), but with the reference formation being division or brigade instead of regiment. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 17:12, 7 August 2019 (EDT)

:::::The Successors States have Militia, Support, Training and Navy (and not all have them) + the root with regiments. This is not exactly possible with the SDLF. Here the two big formations are Regiments and Divisions. Now, we could have them all in root uncategorized, but what about the rest?--[[User:Pserratv|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv|talk]]) 11:14, 8 August 2019 (EDT)

::::::I think the current system is acceptable for most users with the breakdown of the different categories after unit type. The royal sub categorie give us a nice overview about the size of the army within the army. About the topic of adhoc task forces during the liberation of terra. We can mentioned it within the correponding articles but I see no need for another sub category. [[neuling]]
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	::::::I think the current system is acceptable for most users with the breakdown of the different categories after unit type. The royal sub categorie give us a nice overview about the size of the army within the army. About the topic of adhoc task forces during the liberation of terra. We can mentioned it within the correponding articles but I see no need for another sub category. [[neuling]]		::::::I think the current system is acceptable for most users with the breakdown of the different categories after unit type. The royal sub categorie give us a nice overview about the size of the army within the army. About the topic of adhoc task forces during the liberation of terra. We can mentioned it within the correponding articles but I see no need for another sub category. [[neuling]]
−
−	:::::::Royal Commands Category created and units added there. As per the actual consensus, I'll leave the category structure as it is. This completes the organization ramp-up I was doing. I hope it is acceptable as it is now.--[[User:Pserratv\|Pserratv]] ([[User talk:Pserratv\|talk]]) 03:59, 9 August 2019 (EDT)