Editing Talk:Thomas Marik

{{WikiProject Biographies|tr=new}}
We really need two separate entries for Thomas Marik (aka The Master; the real Marik) and for the false Thomas Marik (the double inserted by ComStar). Links from other articles should be updated accordingly, i.e. to either [[Thomas Marik]] or to [[Thomas Marik (Impostor)]]. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] 17:09, 3 December 2007 (CST)
:Yeah, I was thinking about that. Split off the info for the impostor to [[Thomas Halas]], maybe? --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 09:49, 4 December 2007 (CST)

::False Thomas Marik has never used surname other than Marik and he was married to Cherryl Halas in early 3060s.  Thus it make no sense for him to have Halss surname for himself.  I suggest that he be listed as [[Thomas Marik II]], Thomas Marik (False) or (False) Thomas Marik. i would go with Marik II since its most valid way to go. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 06:24, 12 April 2009 (PDT)
:::That is incorrect. Read [http://www.wizkidsgames.com/mechwarrior/courier/pda.asp?a=38504 this]. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 06:50, 12 April 2009 (PDT)

::::I apologize, but other than website mention his Halas surname Wizkid's online site. CGL has not gotten to game year 3080.  MWDA novels never mentioned him as Halas, even by his own daughter in Free Worlds League story arch.  -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 17:04, 12 April 2009 (PDT)
:::::IIRC, there is a note to him in JHS:3070 about a Traps Volcano that obliterates a hidden world (presumably Jardine) that he forwards to somebody else and he signs it "TH". It might be in JHS:3072, I'm not sure. --[[User:Scaletail|Scaletail]] 19:00, 12 April 2009 (PDT)
:::::::Who would going write the Thomas Halas article and re-write this one? I believe Scaletail is right, the article should be seperated.  Since double actually has name it should be used, instead of (Double) Thomas Marik. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 13:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

::::::::If I may, at least half this article is in regards to the "False" Thomas Marik, or Thomas Halas, or whatever it is one chooses to call him. A reader who wouldn't know otherwise would get the impression that Joshua Marik was the son of the "Real" Thomas Marik. I've since changed this. I would vote that the new article be titled "Thomas Marik (False)" - HOWEVER - Thomas Halas is referenced in many places on this page and elsewhere. So calling the article "Thomas Halas" might be for the best, REGARDLESS of what and when the character was calling himself. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]]

:::::::::Sorry - I forgot to sign that. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]]

::::::::::As we start to get to the pointy end of the Jihad, we really do need to revisit this. I'm of the opinion that much like [[Anastasius Focht]], the article for the real Thomas be called The Master, while the false one be called Thomas Halas, with plain Thomas Marik as a beefier than usual disambig. [[User:Cyc|Cyc]] 03:59, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

:::::::::::Not a bad idea. I'd support it. Or, you could have all of the different names (The Master, Tomas Halas, False Thomas, etc.) re-direct to the Thomas Marik article, which would not be written as a standard bio, but an article on the name and the people who 'wore' it. Much like an article about Santa Claus might be, as it detailed the various personalities who established the Christmas mythos. (Hope I didn't ruin it for anyone.) Either way would work for me. In the end...whomever picks up the ball first and comes back with the beefiest, well-written article will probably curry the consensus. --[[User:Revanche|Revanche]] <sup>([[User_talk:Revanche|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Revanche|contribs]])</sup> 04:37, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

::::::::::::So - someone would click on or type "Thomas Marik", and it would redirect them to a page that would ask them "Do you mean the "Real" Thomas Marik, aka "The Master"? Or do you mean the "False" Thomas Marik, aka "Thomas Halas"? That would work for me. Second thought: At some point, its possible they might actually tell us what "False Thomas"'s real name was. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]]
::::::::::::::Problem right now is they haven't estiblished profile that identified as original Thomas Marik and what "he" been doing since becoming the Master.  I believe when we get profile for "real" Thomas, we'll be able safely split the two characters up.  He hasn't taken the name Halas yet.  In Herb's Dark Age PDF he wrote, he wrote that "false" Thomas as Halas. -- [[User:Wrangler|Wrangler]] 19:26, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::So? Plenty of characters have gaps in them. Take Ardan Sortek for example. We have only bits and pieces of what he was doing between the 4th Succession War and the FC Civil War. My problem with the current article is that someone not 'in the know' would be totally confused as to which parts referred to real Thomas and which to fake Thomas. Until recently, someone would think Joshua Marik was the son of 'real' Thomas. [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]]

::::::::::::::::I will throw my vote into that this page needs to be split up into two separate pages.  I was going to go through and edit the [[Jessica Marik]] page but found that I could not easily due to the double up of information on this page, more specifically his death year is different and what he did when he was alive after the Jihad. [[User:DerangedShadow|DerangedShadow]] ([[User talk:DerangedShadow|talk]]) 05:03, 7 January 2014 (PST)
:Since a split hasn't been done, I corrected the info at the top of the page. --[[User:Neufeld|Neufeld]] 09:15, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

::Almost every article related to Thomas Halas and his children now contradict the source material (over the name Marik,) Almost all source material referring to Thomas Marik is referring to Thomas Halas, and "in-universe", knowing The Master's identity is likely to get somebody killed. The current convention fills the search box with spoilers, and contradicts source material. I would suggest that the page Thomas Marik should be about the character most often referred to in source material as Thomas Marik, and The Master should be the page dealing with the "real" Thomas Marik. Also, the Halas-Hughes naming of Thomas Halas' children and grandchildren now ALSO contradicts source material AND adds more search spoilers. The current over-correction is 100% Grog, and likely to confuse people reading a novel or sourcebook.{{Unsigned| 35.136.254.143}}
:::All honesty, I think it is a bit late for spoilers on this topic, it has been out in the wild for over a decade. And the Halas-Hughes naming of his kids was done by me for purposes of making the family tree articles work, nothing to do with being a grog. The whole thing is a tangled mess no matter how you cut it, so we are trying to make it as workable as we can.--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 08:30, 23 March 2023 (EDT)
::::The point is that the "Real" and "False" Thomas Marik flow together to an extent where it is impossible to distinguish them. I feel the article as is captures it perfectly: He acted through the double after the 3035 bomb blast, i.e. the political actions carried out by the double were either directed by Thomas Marik or approved by him, i.e. they were either directly or indirectly the true Thomas Marik's actions. And then there was a gradual process of Thomas Marik withdrawing from the Thomas Marik persona and leaving it more and more in the hands of his double, until the real Thomas Marik was only The Master and his double acted ever more independently in Thomas Marik's name, assuming the identity fully to the point of clashing with The Master later on. The tipping point for all anyone can tell would probably have been around 3054, as shown in the underappreciated ''[[Ideal War]]''. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 11:59, 23 March 2023 (EDT)

== Pictures ==
I am 90% sure that the pic at the top is supposed to be "Fake" Thomas/Thomas Halas. IIRC, "Real" Thomas was a cyborg after the explosion, to the point where Paul Marik didn't even consider putting "Real" Thomas back on the throne. Does anyone disagree? [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]]
: Agree. That picture is of the "Fake" from Masters & Minions. Try Brush Wars for a picture of the real one before the bombing, and Masters & Minions WoB section for the Master. --[[User:Neufeld|Neufeld]] 18:44, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
::Oh there are plenty of pics of Thomas from pre-bombing. The House book, the Succession Wars boxed set, and the places you mentioned. I didn't know M&M had a CURRENT pic (as I don't have it). It would be cool if someone could post that... [[User:ClanWolverine101|ClanWolverine101]]
:::Give me some page numbers then i uploade the pics.--[[User:Doneve|Doneve]] ([[User talk:Doneve|talk]]) 07:08, 7 January 2014 (PST)