Editing User talk:UomoUniversale

{{Template:Welcome|realName=Obi|name=UomoUniversale}}

-- [[User:New user message|New user message]] ([[User talk:New user message|talk]]) 16:51, 25 March 2024 (EDT)

==Gray Death Legion==
Hi UomoUniversale, thanks for your interest in updating our GDL page. Just a heads up that all info that's put on the page will need to be cited, or will risk being removed eventually. If you need more info, you can see here: [[Help:References]]. Thanks again for your help. [[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 22:27, 25 March 2024 (EDT)
:Welcome from me, too!
:Regarding the Gray Death Legion roster, for all we can determine from datamining the canon sources they had a lot of fluctuation with their spacecraft. In particular, they kept the names when swapping out ships. There were apparently two JumpShips named ''Invidious'' (of different classes) and the ''Phobos'' and ''Deimos'' were also originally ''Danais'' class merchanters and later replaced with ''Union''s of the same name. I did a bit of research there back in the day when I wrote the articles on the individual vessels. (I do admit that there was probably author error behind the class change but canon is what it is now.) [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 02:50, 26 March 2024 (EDT)

::Greetings All:
::I've been enjoying reading the pages and thought to add some more info. 
::I'll have to figure out how to add the sources. They are all from the books. 
::Good point regarding the different types of ships. I remember the Gray Death sourcebook giving different jumpship types for the Invidious.

::I suppose better explanation would be that they were different ships, with the same designation.  It certainly explains why they kept the name Invidious for the Jumpship. A name more in keeping for a pirate ship.{{Unsigned|UomoUniversale}}

:Question:  Why did you remove the classic 3025 Gray Death Company description that came straight from the Gray Death Legion sourcebook?  The two forces you put for 3025 you attribute to the Gray Death Legion sourcebook, but I don't believe they use any Wasps in that sourcebook...{{Unsigned|Phaz}}

::Apologies, I may have removed it by mistake. I was using the book trilogy. Decision at Thunder Rift and Mercenary Star. Wasps were the captured mechs from Trellwan.  The Legion ended up in Galatea, with 5 mechs. Shadow Hawk, Locust, Stinger and two Wasps. I presume, Hassan was dispossessed at the time. Reasons why he took contract with the Legion. The Wasps ended up with the two other recruits who didn't have mechs.{{Unsigned|UomoUniversale}}

Timeline The Price of Glory (Sirius V, Helm) and A Rock and a Hard Place (Imbros and Valdis)
Are there any updates regarding the timeline between Helm and Valdis? A Rock and a Hard Place novella has dates from 15 September 3027 - 16 August 3028.

So It seems The Price of Glory novella Liberation of Sirius V and betrayal at Helm would have been in 3026-3027? UomoUniversale.

My mistake. [[Price of Glory]] was the end point of the campaign and [[A Rock and a Hard Place]] started barely a month after the betrayal at Helm. 
[[User:UomoUniversale|UomoUniversale]] ([[User talk:UomoUniversale|talk]]) 01:44, 6 May 2024 (EDT)

==Help pages==
The biggest thing I'm seeing on those GDL edits is that it seems you are attempting to organize and format the information, without the knowledge of how to do it either how you envision it should look or how to do so correctly on a wiki page. It happens! and the BTW staff are always around to help new users wanting to get things done. Here are some Help pages we have here to assist in getting things looking like you want:
* [[Help:List]]
* [[Help:Wiki markup]]
* [[Help:Wikilinks]]

If you wish to go with tables and/or wish to use collapsible elements to show or hide content to better format content:
* [[Help:Collapsing]]
* [[Help:Table]]

Additionally we ([[BattleTechWiki:Masthead|as in Wiki Staff)]]) are most times available to assist you in real-time [https://discord.gg/CPjUMCbk36 on our discord] (which can be used in a browser window or an app)

(Side note is you sign posts by using the signature template by placing <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>)

--[[User:Deadfire|Deadfire]] ([[User talk:Deadfire|talk]]) 12:58, 26 March 2024 (EDT)

== abbreviated ranks ==

Hey UomoUniversale,

Just wondering why you are changing the ranks in the Gray Death Legion article to abbreviated ones?--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 09:08, 25 April 2024 (EDT)

:Hi: 
:I don't know of any real world unit that spells out their whole rank. That's my experience in the reserve forces and working with regular British army forces in the Civil Service. I think this looks more efficient. 
:I hope it's okay.
:[[User:UomoUniversale|UomoUniversale]] ([[User talk:UomoUniversale|talk]]) 11:59, 25 April 2024 (EDT)

::Hi UomoUniversale, first and foremost, thank you for building the Gray Death Legion page further. As for abbreviating ranks, keep in mind 1) this is not the real world, 2) BattleTech has its own formatting styles which in this case means almost always writing out the rank in full every time, and 3) the Sarna wiki has its own formatting standards which usually reflect BT style and generally need to be applied across the board to keep a sense of organization among the hundreds of editors we have from all over the world and from different backgrounds. Please be mindful of whatever precedents may have been established as you continue your edits and productive contributions. Thank you, --[[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 10:55, 2 May 2024 (EDT)

==Citations==
Hiya, a belated welcome from me. Thanks for the work you’re putting in. I just saw your recent citation edits to [[Gray Death Legion]] and wanted to point out a way to make your life easier: Multi-use citations.

You can assign a name to a given reference, and then reuse that reference through a simplified call. It works as follows:<nowiki>

<ref name=RHP52>''Rock and a Harf Place'', p. 52</ref> - use this once, typically when first using this specific reference.

From then on you can call up this reference by its name instead of repeating it: <ref name=RHP52/>

</nowiki>
[[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 01:59, 27 April 2024 (EDT)

==Kaos==
Awesome job at expanding your experience on our wiki with page creation.

In the interest of helping you continue to improve as a editor, I would like to show you the  
{{Diff|1072405|changes I made to your most recent page creation}}. As you can see with this link it shows you the changes you made with the creation of the page side by side with the changes I made. This way you can see the tips and tricks more experienced editors use to make pages in line with existing practices. In particular:
* The uses of certain templates
* The use of the "Notes", "References", and "Biography" sections.
* The use of "Categories"
* The use of "ref name" for repeated references

Also feel free to [https://discord.gg/CPjUMCbk36 join us on discord] for any assistance or answers to questions you may need or anything else wiki/BattleTech related.--[[User:Deadfire|Deadfire]] ([[User talk:Deadfire|talk]]) 11:49, 30 April 2024 (EDT)

==Gray Death Legion product page==
Please be sure that the information you list on the product page is consistent with what is shown in the table of contents. Information on the characters' ranks, mechs, etc, can be found when users go to their pages. Thank you, [[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 01:38, 6 May 2024 (EDT)

:Thanks. Will do so. 
:Some minor inconsistencies between novels and sourcebooks, but I can always leave notes like the others.
:[[User:UomoUniversale|UomoUniversale]] ([[User talk:UomoUniversale|talk]]) 01:40, 6 May 2024 (EDT)

::If a section is missing or mistitled, or something of a similar nature, that's a reasonable modification. Inconsistencies between books can be noted on the characters' pages as you alluded to, and happens quite frequently between older and newer publications. Issues with the books themselves can be noted on the product page, but of course these are for larger inconsistencies. [[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 01:51, 6 May 2024 (EDT)

:I thought adding the mechs and adding the dates 3030 would helpful? 
:Plus I tried to add the dates on the scenarios, but that disappeared. 
:[[User:UomoUniversale|UomoUniversale]] ([[User talk:UomoUniversale|talk]]) 09:05, 7 May 2024 (EDT)

::This is a product page, so the information needs to be more literal. If something needs to be said, it can go in the description or notes sections. Adding Mechs would not be appropriate here. [[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 09:09, 7 May 2024 (EDT)

:I updated a couple of stubs using information from the sourcebook, for Randolph Blake and Erin Sharpley, on their pages. 
:Would adding dates to scenarios be helpful? It's for people who want to find out the timeline of events, but don't have the old sourcebook. 
:[[User:UomoUniversale|UomoUniversale]] ([[User talk:UomoUniversale|talk]]) 09:13, 7 May 2024 (EDT)

::A timeline already exists which includes all the scenarios in this book: [[Late Succession War - Renaissance (Chronology)]]. [[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 09:17, 7 May 2024 (EDT)

That timeline is attempting a chronology for the whole thing. When I read [[A Rock and a Hard Place]], I thought there was an error on the timeline of events, as [[The Price of Glory]] didn't have dates. Took awhile for me to realise that both Sirius V, Betrayal at Helm and Valdis happened on the same year. The GDL sourcebook assisted. 
Late Succession War chronology looks to be for those who want dive deep into the 4th Succession War timeline, not GDL timeline. 
[[User:UomoUniversale|UomoUniversale]] ([[User talk:UomoUniversale|talk]]) 09:32, 7 May 2024 (EDT)
:Be advised that the dates given in ''[[Rock and a Hard Place]]'' conflict with other canon sources regarding the Helm timeline. [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 11:19, 7 May 2024 (EDT)
::And in regard to what should be in the chronology, it is a general timeline for the era so any GDL timeline events would go in there. It likely just reads like a deep dive of the 4th SSW because at some point somebody doing exactly that has put in the info. For the most part the wiki could be described as a lot of different peoples deep dives into various BT related subjects stitched together.--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 11:51, 7 May 2024 (EDT)

Agreed. GDL Sourcebook does state that working for House Marik started late 3026 to 3028. A few weeks after arriving in Galatea, after the Verthandi Campaign (Oct 3025 to Aug 3026). Battle for Helm Memory Core 1st April 3028.
 
Start of "A Rock and a Hard Place" starts is dated March 3028. Plus Francine Roget and Mark Baron supposedly died on Helm, but are very much alive for the Valdis mission. Much like the Invidious Jumpship seems to be a Merchant Jumpship that is an Invader-class. 
Troublesome.  

I was hoping to clean up the main Gray Death Legion page, by adding some the information onto the GDL Sourcebook and the [[Day of Heroes]] page.
Up to you admins.
[[User:UomoUniversale|UomoUniversale]] ([[User talk:UomoUniversale|talk]]) 12:34, 7 May 2024 (EDT)

:I ran into the same problems when I reviewed your edits to the ''Invidious'' article. Though there is enough wriggle room in the books to assume Renfred Tor had a ''Merchant''-class vessel originally and then right after Helm the GDL got themselves an ''Invader'' that they also christened ''Invidious'' and put Renfred Tor in command. Similar to how the ''Phobos'' and ''Deimos'' started out as civilian freighter DropShips (later established to be ''Danais/Trojan'' class) but as of ''The Price of Glory'' we're suddenly looking at two ''Union''-class military vessels. (The ''Phobos'' was essentially wrecked on Verthandi so it was easy to assume it got replaced by a ''Union'' of the same name...). [[User:Frabby|Frabby]] ([[User talk:Frabby|talk]]) 13:50, 7 May 2024 (EDT)
::It was easier to presume that the Invidious was an Invader-class merchant Jumpship. Being a Jumpship on it's last legs with one dropship collar inoperable, is a more reasonable theory. Unless, they write how the Legion seized an Invader-class from some Pirates? 

::Not sure how the Legion can afford two Unions at 160 million c-bills each. I don't see anything incongruous with the Gray Death managing to procure a couple of Union-class, while they spent almost a year on Verthandi. 

::The GDL supposedly gained a company of SLDF mechs (The Price of Glory novel), but nothing heard since. I'm still annoyed that Davis McCall didn't get his Highlander from Helm. The mech just turns up at "Blood of Heroes" I can hold out hope another few books sorts out the mix up.[[User:UomoUniversale|UomoUniversale]] ([[User talk:UomoUniversale|talk]]) 14:38, 7 May 2024 (EDT)
:::I would say that stuff comes down to being an authors pet unit, he gets to throw stuff in even if it doesn't make sense. We see it with all of the "author units", usually that is the point to stop digging to far into the numbers and just roll with it.--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 19:42, 8 May 2024 (EDT)

==Lore in product articles==
Since the GDL Sourcebook and Day of Heroes are not being published at the moment,  is it okay for me to add the fluff and the forces involved on their pages? Cheers. [[User:UomoUniversale|UomoUniversale]] ([[User talk:UomoUniversale|talk]]) 17:26, 8 May 2024 (EDT){{Unsigned|UomoUniversale}}
:I do not think there is call for the lore stuff to be put into the GDL sourcebook and Day of Heroes product pages, between the main GBL page, character articles and battle articles there is very little that we don't have a template for as a stand alone lore article these days. Is there something specific you are struggling to fit into the main article?--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 19:42, 8 May 2024 (EDT)

::The TO&E of the GDL is incomplete. Tended to focus on First Battalion. I thought that adding the rest of the Legion would make it too big and unwieldy on the one page. 

::So posting those TO&E onto the sourcebooks might assist, leaving the ones from the novels available on the main page. 
::[[User:UomoUniversale|UomoUniversale]] ([[User talk:UomoUniversale|talk]]) 00:30, 9 May 2024 (EDT)
:Splitting the info that way would be very messy and likely to cause confusion, If we are trying for full TO&E I think it makes more sense to keep the info together.

:It might be worth having a "short list" in the main article that lists the broad strength of the unit and then split off the main TO&E into its own article. This is an idea that has been floated on and off over the years about how to handle the large "phonebook" unit rosters we have for a handful of units.--[[User:Dmon|Dmon]] ([[User talk:Dmon|talk]]) 14:03, 9 May 2024 (EDT)

::I agree with the idea that the broad strength of the Legion can be listed on the main article. Then split off to the sourcebooks.
 
::The GDL Sourcebook have data from the start of the legion 3024 to 3030. Not really needed, except for a deep dive on Legion history, listing alot of their battles. 

::The Day of Heroes from War of 3039, 3050 Clan invasion, and 3056 Second Skye Rebellion. This was supposedly when they increased to a regiment of mechs, but only list 1st and 2nd Battalion. 

::The last few books from [[Tactics of Duty]] to [[The Dying Time]] TO&E can be remain on the main article. Hopefully until another sourcebook gets written.
::[[User:UomoUniversale|UomoUniversale]] ([[User talk:UomoUniversale|talk]]) 16:03, 9 May 2024 (EDT)
:Hi Uomo, I'm responding to your "then split off to the sourcebooks" comment. Just to be clear: no one is saying the product page's TOC should be updated with any additional information. Please leave the information as you see it now. What Dmon is talking about is a "sub-page" that some editors have been brainstorming for some time where instead of bloating the unit pages with a complete TO&E, a separate page would be used to house that information. This would allow better readability on the unit's main page (for history and other general information) while still providing a space to put all the nitty-gritty, which is likewise important. So your work on GDL has perhaps bumped this discussion higher on the priority list to be addressed sooner than later. [[User:Csdavis715|Csdavis715]] ([[User talk:Csdavis715|talk]]) 21:34, 9 May 2024 (EDT)