Talk:Clan Jade Falcon Remnants

Hi everybody. I am the one which have began the Remnant's page. I know, i know, technically, it should be part of the "Clan Jade Falcon", s page, most can say. But, to me, the Remnants are a separated clan, like the Alyina Mercantile League. Technically, the League was composed of the main part of the Falcon's merchant caste, but they've broken ties with the "true" clan Jade Falcon. The Remnants, no... but they're separated from Terra's Falcons, and Chistu's actions make him a de facto separated Clan leader. The fact, as example, than he had been choosen as Khan, but didn't even have a SaKhan, proves it, right? Until the remnants establish contact with the "true" Falcons of Terra, they're, to me, a separated clan, and for this I've think the Remnants deserve its own page, even if their separation is temporally.User: Fredericmora

First, I would like to address a point of fact in here: on page 67 of Tamar Rising, the freeborn Star Colonel Teresa was elected saKhan.

Second, I have to agree that they should have their own page at least for now, as we do not know what CGL intends to do with them. However, they are acting functionally as a distinct Clan. I am hopeful that over the next year or so we will have a better idea what will become of them. "Jade Falcon Remnants" is, however, something we do not see in Tamar or anywhere else that I know of. "Fallen Falcons" is used as a catchall term for Jiyi's Falcons and the AML. Perhaps "Clan Jade Falcon (Fallen Falcons)" would be a more appropriate name. They call themselves Clan Jade Falcon, it is outside observers (like us) who need a way to distinguish.--Talvin (talk) 17:35, 27 June 2022 (EDT)

Good point. That thing about the SaKhan, I'ven't read it. And I've considered using the "Fallen Falcons" for Chistu's group, but i didn't, because when it appears, in the page 87, refers both at Chistu's "clan" as the AML.User: Fredericmora

Ah, this tricky question. Who's to say that the survivors on Terra are the "true" Clan, and not those on Sudeten? Would the few Bloodnamed Warriors on Terra retain the full rights to the Jade Falcon mantle, even if they fully merged with a new SLDF (in a complete parallel to what happened with Clan Nova Cat and the Republic)? Or should a Clan instead be defined by the larger body of its people, regardless of caste? In that case, Jiyi and his Sudeten Falcons could lay a greater claim to the "official" title. After all, Jiyi has a lower caste (and lower caste leaders) that he interacts with and directs---all individuals that the Terran Falcons have (so far) apparently chosen to abandon.

Note: this are rhetorical questions that should not be answered; they don't have clear, canon answers. Because of that, I'd personally advocate for simply making this page a subsection on the core Clan Jade Falcon page. After all, the timeline will eventually progress to a point where the matter is settled one way or another, and that's when a distinct, separate page will be able to be made.

Alyina, though, is very clearly its own distinct entity and I do agree that they should have their own page either way.--GreekFire (talk) 18:15, 27 June 2022 (EDT)

Good questions. Allow me to give you my opinion. First, I presume a Clan can be reborn even after they've merged and separated from another, if they retain their identity: like Vlad Ward's Wolves after they were merged with the Jade falcons, though briefly. And the last Nova Cats (not Spirit Cats) which seeked refuge between the Clan Protectorate, most were members of the Republic. and I think like you about the AML... But the Writes of Tamar Rising didn't think the AML deserved its own page: in the book, as I've said you, AML and Remnants share the same: "Fallen Falcons".User: Fredericmora

I am going to disagree insofar as Jiyi's Falcons being less distinct. They have different values, now. A Freeborn saKhan. Fair treatment to and alliance with mercenaries. Greater respect given to the "lower" castes. These are sharp breaks with traditional Jade Falcon ways. That much has been made clear. Comparable situation: one may expect Andurien to rejoin the Free Worlds League, but we still link characters to Andurien. Likewise, we want to be clear to which Khan a particular Jade Falcon is beholden. Clan Wolf and Clan Wolf-in-Exile also come to mind. We can always merge things later, if need be.--Talvin (talk) 18:27, 27 June 2022 (EDT)

Putting it a different way: barring a miracle, there will be at least one Battle Page where we explain an encounter between Chistu's Falcons and Chistu's Falcons. ;) We will *need* proper names for the two belligerents at that point.--Talvin (talk) 18:35, 27 June 2022 (EDT)

• • Maybe that's right. To me, the equivalent of this is the Republic Remnant. Technically, it was a part of Fortress Republic, but de facto, they were two separate and different entities, right? And each had his own page.User: Fredericmora