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User talk:BrokenMnemonic/2013 Archive

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Individual ShipsEdit

Added this to Frabby's talk page but wanted to be sure you saw it.

ETA: Those rulership succession boxes are a really good idea, btw. I'm trying to think what the greatest number of changes a ship has been through that we can identify. 3 is pretty common, particularly for WOB ships and maybe some of the Clan ships. Is there a ship with a name that's changed 4 times? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:36, 26 December 2012 (PST)
OK. Sounds like you've got it. Just add that to the create a warship article, please, so others can see how to do it. And to answer your question, I'm not aware of any ships that have changed hands 4 times, but that doesn't mean there won't be any in the future. Maybe you can start with 3 entries and add more as options?--Mbear(talk) 04:15, 27 December 2012 (PST)
It would be easy enough to set up a template with ten variable fields to track up to ten different name changes, and thereby have an info box that can list all of the previous names a ship has had up to the current name, if that would be a useful thing to have in addition to the succession template? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 03:31, 31 December 2012 (PST)
Honestly I have no opinion at this time. WarShips aren't my thing. If I see something that I'm not sure of, I'll let you know. :)--Mbear(talk) 07:19, 2 January 2013 (PST)

Planet and Star InfoboxesEdit

Hy BM, i hope your stard in the new year was well, thanks for the formating on the various planet pages, i know i forgot to add some planetary flags to the infobox. I think circa 50% on the planet pages have now there missing infobox, oh and thanks for helping to add some to articles i missed, greetings.--Doneve (talk) 12:04, 9 January 2013 (PST)

Hy Doneve, my year's been fair to middling so far - I'm helping run a convention that'll be held in mid-May, so I've been feeling a little stretched by that, and it's nice to be able to do some quiet editing on Sarna as a way of relaxing.
I'm happy to be able to help with the planet infoboxes - I did a few while I was updating the planetary histories, and I know how much of a pain they can be. With so many update needed tags for Objectives: Free Worlds League, I'm debating buying a copy of that too so that I can pitch in a bit more. I hope you had a good new year? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:12, 9 January 2013 (PST)
ETA: Looking at some of the planetary infoboxes, I think we could do with the infobox not stretching images to a width of 225 pixels if they're already narrower than that - some of the planets, like Denbar, are suffering from very bloated flags now. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:21, 9 January 2013 (PST)
At first i know the planetary flag problem, i want to upload some new in smaller size, and fix the infoboxes. Hmm, the stard in new year was very busy, my cousin from Canada and eight from our family visit us and stay for view days by us, some trouble was programm  , what a conventions is that, have you a date for me, and on wish location (city) stard the convention, i have from April to June holidays, and i don't know howe i fill my time in this months  .--Doneve (talk) 12:32, 9 January 2013 (PST)
I've asked Mbear about the infoboxes, as I remember Rev used to ask him about infoboxes a lot - I hope he can help. It's way outside my experience...
I'm not sure I could survive having 8 family members visit at once!   It was hectic enough when there were 6-7 of us at my parents this year. It was nice in some ways to come back to my house for the New Year and enjoy a little quiet. Are you enjoying having the house back to just you and your family now?
The convention I'm helping to run is Vidukon, a convention about fan-vidding - making music videos about tv shows and films. It's only a little con - the last one 2 years ago had about 35 people at it, and so far we've got about 12 registered for this year - but it's in Cardiff, which is close to where I live, and because the organisers needed help, I ended up joining the convention committee as Treasurer to help run things. I'm also the TechMonkey - I'm responsible for making sure the sound works, getting all the vids into a format that will play, establishing what format we want them in, that sort of thing. I'm trying to make a vid for the Premieres show on the Saturday, but it's going slowly...
This is the vid I made for the last show - although the comedy part of the horror comedy theme didn't really come through on the day   BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:45, 9 January 2013 (PST)
Ha ha ha, i know what you mean, i love also when the house is quiete, oh and thanks for the con infos.--Doneve (talk) 12:55, 9 January 2013 (PST)
I'm feeling the flags in the infoboxes! Good work!   ClanWolverine101 (talk) 14:43, 9 January 2013 (PST)
Thank you   It's nice to get a chance to help Doneve out - normally, it's the other way around! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:12, 10 January 2013 (PST)
That's what Doneve does! ClanWolverine101 (talk) 07:22, 10 January 2013 (PST)

Planet InfoBoxEdit

Copied from my talk page Mbear, as the resident expert on infobox construction, is there any way to amend the Template:InfoBoxPlanetStandard template so that if the image is already less than 225 pixels in width, it isn't increased automatically to a width of 225 pixels? Some of the info boxes (like Denbar) are suffering from image bloat because the long, think planetary flags are being scaled up dramatically... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:27, 9 January 2013 (PST)

I don't know off the top of my head. Let me look into it.--Mbear(talk) 04:17, 10 January 2013 (PST)
Updated the InfoboxPlanetStandard to include a new paramater: imagewidth. If you have an image less than 225px, you can enter the width in pixels on this line to show image w/o scaling. Leaving line blank will assume width of 225px.--Mbear(talk) 04:31, 10 January 2013 (PST)

New SyrtisEdit

Hy BM, have this award from me  , for your great New Syrtis article update, this article is a template for me, how must a planet article must look, great work.--Doneve (talk) 08:30, 18 January 2013 (PST)

Hy Doneve   Thank you, that's very kind! I'm lucky, there was a lot of detail available on New Syrtis in the two handbooks, and it played a pretty prominant role in the Davion Civil War and some other events. It was more fun than some other planet articles I've written   It's got me thinking about expanding the Federated Suns history article (if there is one) because I'm finding the different Marches and their ruling families rather interesting. Did you know that the Princes of the Draconis March Principality, based out of their Capital of Tancredi IV, were named Kerensky, up until the last elderly Kerensky was replaced by Laura Davion? Or that the original family that held the title of Prince of the Terran March Principality were killed by a Terran Hegemony raid on Royalston, and replaced for a couple of generations by the Rhostov family? It's not something I've really read up on before, but I'm finding it all rather interesting, and the Civil War covers a lot of planets... you know how much I like expanding planet articles. And it's set in the Age of War, which I'm finding increasingly intersting...
Anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks again for the award! I shall update my awards board now... BrokenMnemonic (talk)

Individual Warship articles: CategoriesEdit

Hi BrokenMnemonic, finally got some time to look into your articles and there's two points I'd like to raise with you:
1. WarShips aren't JumpShips as far as categorization is concerned. The five major categories for individual hulls are WarShip, JumpShip, DropShip, Small Craft, and Installation. In this sense, JumpShips are (only) civilian JumpShip designs with a standard KF core; WarShips don't fall into the JumpShip category.
2. Please add the appropriate category (e.g. [[Category:Individual Destroyers]]) to articles where the ship's type is known. Similarly and on top of this, please add the appropriate category (e.g. [[Category:Individual Suffren-class vessels]]) to articles where the class is known. In this way, I'd like to mirror the categories tree established for classes. Frabby (talk) 11:51, 19 January 2013 (PST)

1 - Done.
2 - Done.
A couple of things came out of my categorisation spree earlier that you may wish to take a view on.
  • Not all WarShip types are categorised - the Volga, Potemkin and Faslane were all missing classes. I used the definitions within the WarShip classifications page to categorise them as a transport, a cruiser and a Yard-Ship respectively, but you may wish to correct that if I got it wrong.
  • You may wish to choose to have light and heavy cruiser become subcategories of the cruiser category; looking at the classifications page, some of the lightest cruisers are described as heavy cruisers, while some cruisers such as the Potemkin are either simply described as "cruiser" or a weird subdivision such as "transport cruiser." When it comes to describing vessels narratively, the writers often seem to simply use "cruiser" - the SLS Havana is an example of that. This might require tagging a lot of vessels as both a cruiser and a subdivision, or you could take the view that cruiser is used when that's the only description and is a less accurate category to be improved if information is available.
You've not commented on whether the names of the Minotaur and Lakshmi are correct or not, so I've assumed for now that they are, and added the Minotaur to the Aegis page as the SLS Minotaur, rather than as the THS Minotaur quoted on the CGL forum review. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 03:03, 20 January 2013 (PST)
You rule, man! Thanks! The Cruiser designation is sort of a catch-all designation really, and WarShip classification is wonky anyways. I wouldn't want to categorize beyond Cruiser, especially given that the Cruiser sub-classes typically have only a handful classes in them and thus aren't worth differentiating anyways (heavy, light, battle, troop, pursuit cruisers and maybe a couple more; not aware of any particular class referred to as "transport cruiser" though - the Potemkin is called a "troop cruiser"). Similarly, I feel we don't need categories for YardShips or transport WarShips. But it doesn't hurt either. Nothing to "correct" here.
As for The Theseus Knot, I have the print edition of the Weapons Free anthology before me and am working it down story by story. Theseus Knot is upcoming. Reading it over, I gather the SLS Minotaur is a refitted Aegis and the FSS Klingenthal a new Congress. No quick ID of the Lakshmi beyond that it was the former command of the Minotaur's CO, i.e. apparently a SLS ship. Frabby (talk) 03:58, 20 January 2013 (PST)
OK, the system is working so far. Davion and Lola class vessels are going to be a pain, because they consist of discrete blocks (I and II for the Davion, I, II and III for the Lola) in article terms, but the texts often don't specify which block a ship came from - that's a problem with ships like the FSS Charles Davion.
The system is allowing for ships that we weren't previously tracking to be loaded into the wiki, though. A case in point is the FSS Lucien Davion, which couldn't be easily recorded before because it had no class information - the same goes for the SLS Havana and the SLS Dularam. It's a little bit of a pain to have to pipe the ship names so that they show up in the correct format, but considerably less of a pain now than it used to be, where I was having to pipe in the name of the class and the sub-link to the Named Vessels section to link to a ship name accurately.
It's also making the WarShip class articles look a little tidier, in my opinion - you can see the difference if you look at something like the Com Guard subsection of the Essex page compared to the other subsections. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 05:16, 21 January 2013 (PST)

Ship name prefixesEdit

Looking at The Theseus Knot article, I feel we should probably create a summary list page for Naval prefixes in BattleTech with redirects in place for individual prefixes (THS, SLS, FSS, et al - btw if CSV is ComStar, what prefix do the Steel Vipers use?). Obviously, the aim would be to link [[FSS]] [[Klingenthal]]. Oh, and we should definitely add a redirect to [[Klingenthal]] from [[FSS Klingenthal]], just to make sure every possible way to write the ship name is covered. "We" being "you" these days, I have to admit. I'd like to help more, but on top of all my workload my entire family save myself is violently ill right now...

Oh, and by the way: Is there an accurate technical/naval term for these prefixes? Frabby (talk) 13:34, 31 January 2013 (PST)

A summary list for prefixes is probably a very good idea. I've a feeling that there are a couple of potential duplicates out there (and I'm kicking myself that I missed the FSS Klingenthal redirect).
I'm not aware of a specific naval term for prefixes - everything I've read simply refers to it as the ship prefix. Although I notice that I've been a little sloppy in some of the articles - there are conventions for using prefixes, such as not putting "The" before a ship with a prefix when you start paragraphs... e.g. "The HMS Warspite was a Royal Navy ship of the line..." is wrong, it should be "HMS Warspite was a ..."
It's also not considered correct to keep using the prefix after the first mention of a ship - and that's something I keep forgetting. So, in an article on the Warspite, it would be "HMS Warspite" the first time, and simply Warspite throughout the rest of an article.
If a ship is from a nation that doesn't use prefixes, then you normally spell out the name of the nation on the first use, e.g. "The Swiss corvette Jungfrau..."
Just to complicate matters regarding ComStar, from what I can see in sources like Twilight of the Clans, during the reign of the Second Star League, ComStar used ISS - which I'm guessing means "Inner Sphere Ship" - rather than CSV (ComStar Vessel). Although finding occasions where the abbreviations are spelt out is rather tricky. Regarding the Steel Vipers, the abbreviation I've seen used is CStV and then the ship name, but that's from existing articles here. FM: Warden Clans makes no mention of the prefix, nor does FM: Updates. Historical: Op Klondike doesn't use any prefixes at all (and I really must sit down and datamine that sourcebook for shipnames, it's an untapped goldmine of detail at the moment). The original Objective Raids makes no mention of WarShips. Wars of Reaving makes no mention I can see, either. Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents confirms the prefixes for some of the Clans - CIH for the Hellions, CJF for the Falcons, although I notice it doesn't confirm anything for the Hell's Horses. I think we may be looking at a case of the prefixes having been conjured up by fandom in a lot of cases. Hmm. I may Ask The Writers if they could clarify prefixes in use. I did notice some oddities - for example, Capellan WarShips use the prefix CCS, but their DropShips use the prefix CCSS.
Anyway, I must go to bed, but thanks for the detail on the Lakshmi, I'll get that updated tomorrow, and I hope you and your family get well soon. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 14:06, 31 January 2013 (PST)

Started a thread on the BT forum to get some community input. There's a few issues already (CSV; CDS/DSS; CGB/CGBS). Let's see if more pop up; I intend to post one summary question to the writers eventually to clear up all questionable or unclear results raised in the thread. Frabby (talk) 14:01, 15 February 2013 (PST)

Hy BM, iam done with ca. 90% of the individul vessel name links on the WarShip pages, but i don't add links to the Clan Steel Viper vessels, i don't know which prefix we use for the Steel Vipers, i datamine my sourcebooks and hope i can found any info.--Doneve (talk) 07:00, 27 February 2013 (PST)
Hy Doneve, according to Wars of Reaving the Steel Vipers used CSV, just like ComStar, so that's what I've been using in all the articles dealing with Steel Viper ships. I'm still working my way through Warden Clans adding ships, though - I've still got Crusader Clans to go, and I need to finish up with a few other books. There are a lot of WarShips out there, aren't there? At this rate, I think we'll soon know what a large proportion of Kerensky's exodus fleet was by ship class. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 07:06, 27 February 2013 (PST)
Ah, ok thanks for the info.--Doneve (talk) 07:18, 27 February 2013 (PST)
Great work, both of you! Every day I'm amazed at all you have done. Sometime, I'll have to go though a lot of my larger articles, like the Clan Coyote page, and the Smoke Jaguar/Mongoose Absorption. From my earliest BT recollections of The Periphery and onward, I loved space battles, so I made sure to pay attention to them in my articles, with all ship names present. And now, because of you guy's diligent work, I'll get to go through those articles and link the names of each vessel to articles that explain more of their history in depth. That's great, and I hope you guys are honored for your endeavors. --Rebs (talk) 11:48, 28 February 2013 (PST)
Believe it or not, I'm actually trying really hard not to think about all of those Jihad and Reunification War articles I'm going to have to go back and change, having carefully listed the WarShips in each and pointed at the named vessels section of each WarShip article... It makes me glad that I hadn't got very far on the Amaris Civil War just yet! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:24, 1 March 2013 (PST)
Hello Broken, I was just perusing the archives of the Clan Chatterweb earlier, and I found a link to Ghost Bear talking about the Leviathan Prime (the connotations are interesting)... [1]
Figured you might be interested to know this. His comment is the last one on the very bottom, though he comments above regarding the vessel as well. Rebs (talk) 22:58, 1 March 2013 (PST)

New Planet overhaul memberEdit

Hy BM, hope all is well with you, we have a new planet overhaul member, please take a look on his talk page User talk:SnagaDance, i think he can help us with the planet map problem, greetings.--Doneve (talk) 08:09, 5 February 2013 (PST)


(copied over from Mbear's talk page)

Saw you deleted Harira, with a note that it was a misspelling for Hahira. Where did that notion come from? Because I'm working on a BC story set partly on Harira, where it is spelled thusly. Frabby (talk) 12:13, 6 February 2013 (PST)

You'd have to ask BrokenMnemonic. He put it up for deletion originally. I just hit the delete button.
(diff) 03:29, March 21, 2012 . . BrokenMnemonic (Talk | contribs | block) (5,132 bytes) (Added deletion request template - entry is a duplicate, based on the mis-spelling of Hahira as Harira)
Sorry!--Mbear(talk) 04:04, 7 February 2013 (PST)
Hi Frabby. Sorry for the delay in responding - I've been rather ill this week, which has stopped me from getting much of anything done.
I marked Harira for deletion as a duplicate entry based on the following:
- Harira and Hahira shared co-ordinates, making it likely that they were being confused with each other
- The auto-generated nearest neighbours map for Harira showed it to be in the same location as the planet Hahira in maps from Era Report: 2750, Handbook: House Davion, Historical: Liberation of Terra Volume 1 and the Map of the Inner Sphere 3130 all show the planet in that location as being named Hahira, not Harira.
- I couldn't find a planet named Harira in any of the electronic BattleTech sourcebooks I have (although I'm not a BC subscriber)
- I couldn't find a planet named Harira in any of Volt or Bad Syntax's mapping information, which is based on even more sources than the ones I own
- There was no entry on Sarna for Hahira, despite it being an established BT world on maps going back to FASA days
Based on those points and the number of previous instances like this where it turned out to be an error in the original information imported from the Inner Sphere mapping site that first established the basis for the planet articles here, it seemed likely that the IS mapping project has misnamed the world, and Sarna had simply imported erroneous data. One of the first things I was involved with here was nailing down exactly this sort of issue with Revanche over the names of worlds like Gillfillan's Gold - originally on here as Gilfillian's Gold, Jordan Wais - imported onto Sarna as Jordan, and Quiberas, which was missing completely and had been replaced on here with Wais.
It may be that I was wrong to mark it for deletion without specifically confirming it with the Writers over on the CGL library, but given that I couldn't find a single source anywhere to confirm that Harira existed while the planet Hahira was completely missing, I couldn't think of a way of asking for their opinion because I wasn't asking for an opinion on a contradiction within BT canon, I'd instead have been asking for an opinion on a contradiction solely within Sarna, which I don't think they'd comment on. It now sounds as if you've just turned up a contradiction between two canon sources, at which point it'd be worth asking the question over at CGL. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 23:09, 7 February 2013 (PST)
Well oookay... I may just drop the charges of High Treason then. ;)
It's apparently another case of a system name that got misspelt until the misspelling became canon (New Hati nee New Haiti being my favourite so far). The original Davion Housebook has the world down as "Harira", and that name is also used in the BC story The Bitter Taste of Hope which is partially set there. Of course there's the off chance that we're looking at two inhabited worlds in the same system. I have Asked the Writers. Frabby (talk) 00:58, 8 February 2013 (PST)
I also found Jacomarle and Jacomarie, the former being the name on maps and the latter found in-text in Historical: Brush Wars. In the new database I'm going to put both names, with the "newer" name in parenthesis. So New Vandenberg and New Vandenburg, Ingomish and Ingonish, etc... will be searchable. Do you guys know any more spelling mutations?-Volt (talk) 04:09, 8 February 2013 (PST)
There is Grumium and Gumium, the latter appearing in the NAIS Atlases and the former being used in every other source I have seen. BPSteiner (talk) 08:48, 27 February 2013 (PST)

GIS MapsEdit

Hy BM, Volt bring me to this beautiful forum, (not Aris) i see you become a member yesterday on Aris :). This site is for maps take a look and you where surprised, her is the link [2], oh and please give me a response what you are think of the created maps by GIS software.--Doneve (talk) 09:46, 18 February 2013 (PST)

Hy Doneve   I think I have an account with ourbattletech, although I've not used it for a while - I'll check when I get a quiet few minutes at work, because I think that's where I registered from. No Java at work though, which is why I think I've not used it much...
Aris looks useful too - I'm not sure I can contribute much, but it's already given me plenty to think about! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 10:47, 19 February 2013 (PST)
On the GIS front - it looks like a very sensible way of getting improved nearest neighbour maps on here, and perhaps larger maps too. I'm not sure how much we can do though - I think that Volt's spreadsheet holds the information that'd be needed, but we could certainly use the maps. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 10:47, 19 February 2013 (PST)
SnagaDance might be able to help you translate the data in my spreadsheet into the relevant maps. Doneve sent him a link to the files so he'd be able to work on those. Though, I'm working on an updated list. I have changes on the faction ownership, but the coordinates are unchanged.-Volt (talk) 17:45, 20 February 2013 (PST)
Did you see that they had enough space in Historical: Liberation of Terra Volume 2 to give us a map of the complete Inner Sphere as at the end of the 1st Succession War? Ok, it's not a full set of maps from Handbook: House Kurita, but it's great to finally be getting some internal mapping detail on the Combine as at various milestones. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:08, 21 February 2013 (PST)
Yup, I've already inputted the data from the 2822 map on my list. I've overwritten some data that was found on the Handbook sectional maps like ownership of Herotitus and others. I need to see a Historical:Succession Wars for 2864 and 3030 maps, that would totally make my day.-Volt (talk) 03:11, 25 February 2013 (PST)
Herb's commented in at least one of the BattleChats about the possibility of an Era Digest: Succession Wars - given that the maps clearly exist, I'm thinking that would be our best bet for seeing them. Fingers crossed! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 04:46, 25 February 2013 (PST)

FSS Lucien DavionEdit

Hy BM, please take a look on the FSS Lucien Davion page, i moved content from the Avalon warship page to the FSS Lucien, and noticed the ship was destroyed during the Reunification war, i don't want to mixed up the page, but i think i do it, argh argh, need help, thanks.--Doneve (talk) 12:44, 26 February 2013 (PST)

Hy Doneve,
Simple answer - there have been two ships named the FSS Lucien Davion. One was a ship destroyed in the Reunification War - we aren't told what class Admiral Vincent's ship was, which is annoying; then, at some point in the 31st century, the FedSuns/FedCom built an Avalon class ship and named it the FSS Lucien Davion as well. So, we need two entries - Lucien Davion (Vessel) for the first one, and Lucien Davion (Avalon) for the second. There's another out there like that - the Ark Royal. Oh, and the Titanic, which is even worse (both ships were Potemkins).BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:48, 26 February 2013 (PST)
Thanks so much, i corrected my mess.--Doneve (talk) 12:59, 26 February 2013 (PST)
Not a problem :) I've found a few ships like this. It may be worth adding a note to each article explaining the existence of the other ship - the Davions really seem to like either naming their ships after planets, or naming them after famous Davions, and there are only so many of each... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 13:04, 26 February 2013 (PST)

Brett Andrews and ilKhansEdit

BM - Excellent editing job on the Brett Andrews article. I commend you with a  ! On a related note... I hate Ulric Kerensky. I hate him soooo much. Oh, he was a nice enough guy for an IlKhan, i suppose, given most ilKhans were evil/insane/megalomaniacs like Mr. Andrews. But he is a PAIN to write. Still, I press on. Hope to have something for the group within a few days. ClanWolverine101 (talk) 12:02, 22 March 2013 (PDT)

I couldn't resist taking a look at the Brett Andrews article - after working through lots of WarShips from Wars of Reaving I can't help but loathe him, in a fashion not dissimilar to that with which I loathe Amos Forlough...
As I'm busy with work with for the convention coming up I'm not getting much done here on weekends at all, but if you post during the week I'll be happy to take a look. I don't know a huge amount about Ulric as I haven't read the Kerensky trilogy since it first came out, and the Clans have never really been my thing, so it'll be an interesting learning experience... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 14:54, 24 March 2013 (PDT)
I can tell you honestly, I am relaxed and somewhat elated simply to have "Andy" passed me now. It truly was enervating to get it together, he's shucked himself of redeeming qualities thoroughly and with no joy or sorrow about it, just mean selfishness.
Thanks for looking over it from me too, because I really truly was just tired of seeing it and had to save it. I hit it up with a strong copyedit too when I had time to get away and come back. But your efforts to round it out are appreciated by myself as well as the crew. And your naval articles are of course excellent. You do indeed have a secret reserve of Clan flair, and it shows. --Rebs (talk) 17:26, 24 March 2013 (PDT)


Thanks for taking action so quickly and clearing this mess up!   Frabby (talk) 00:14, 28 March 2013 (PDT)

Thank you - it's not often we get someone intentionally vandalising pages for purposes other than generic spam, which makes me wonder what was behind this particular case. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:53, 28 March 2013 (PDT)
Yeah, curious situation indeed. I would've sworn we'd never, ever need those user warning templates for real that Revanche drew up years ago, but this is such a case. I saw some curious edits and Doneve's warning on my smartphone but that stupid thing isn't nearly as useful as they're made out to be, and near-useless for editing. When I was behind a real computer again after a couple of hours, Scaletail had already added the template to the user's talk page. And that seems to have been all, for the time being at least. Childish vandal. Frabby (talk) 07:11, 28 March 2013 (PDT)

Invader JumpshipEdit

Hy BM, happy eastern or Ostern  , i found a new Invader-class JumpShip the Scrimshaw Sailor in Interstellar Players 3: Interstellar Expeditions, p. 82, i want to give you this as reminder.--Doneve (talk) 07:33, 31 March 2013 (PDT)

Hy Doneve, Happy Easter   With IP3:IE out of moratorium today, I'm really looking forward to getting to go through the book and add detail here - I think it's my favourite of the most recently released books. And it gives us not just another named Invader, it gives us a named Bug-Eye too... how cool is that? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 01:06, 1 April 2013 (PDT)

Deep PeripheryEdit

It's me again, i updated Kleinwelt a little bit by ISP3 info, but my question is, i create the Category: Deep Periphery Planets category for the planet overhaul, i don't know if this category works, or we change it, but i feel it works, what do you think.--17:25, 31 March 2013 (PDT)

Hy Doneve, I think there's a bit of a problem with the Periphery worlds in that how do we tell whether a world is a Periphery world or a Deep Periphery world? Kleinwelt's a good example - it used to be a planet in the Magistracy of Canopus, which would make it a Periphery world, but now that it's outside the borders of the Magistracy, it's a Deep Periphery world? I think we'd need a ruling from TPTB on how they class worlds as either Periphery or Deep Periphery before we add the category ourselves, because I don't know how we can tell the difference. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 01:13, 1 April 2013 (PDT)

Ask a favorEdit

Hello BrokenMnemonic, it's a long time since I'm working for sarna. In the past I had a problem to accept the policy of the site. But now I'm back and I find a place to create my work without any disturbance. I hope that the online Spell Checker that I use works probably. Please take a look at the operation Rat side of the 4th Succession War and tell me if there are issues with the grammar. Tnx Neuling (talk) 03:26, 4 April 2013 (PDT)

There are some grammatical oddities in the article - how much of it would you like me to work through? I may not get much done as I don't have a lot of time until Sunday, but I can go through some of it and copyedit it a little, if it would be helpful? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:54, 4 April 2013 (PDT)

Individual vessels with imagesEdit

Hi, just wanted to inform you that I tweaked the Template:InfoBoxIndividualVessel so that you only have to enter the filename in the image section, not a proper file link. This is how we do it on all other infobox templates. I found out about the problem when I tried to include the individual picture of the Manassas (Vessel). I'm unsure if the change causes wonky results in cases where an image link was put into the infobox, but I haven't seen a single WarShip (or vessel) article with an image so far so I couldn't check. If you recall any such articles sporting an image, please check or let me know which articles have images. Thanks. Frabby (talk) 15:05, 4 April 2013 (PDT)

At the moment, I haven't added an image to any of the ship articles; there are actually not that many images of specific named vessels in canon that I'm aware of, although I've mainly been working through text-heavy books at the moment. In fact, the only ship that I'm actively aware of that has its own image will be the Black Lion-class SLS Tripitz, because it's pictured being destroyed by ComStar fighters in one of the sourcebooks. I need to take a closer look at the sourcebooks when I have a chance, because I think there are pictures of a number of vessels dotted around in them (I think the destruction of some of the Snow Raven ships at Ramora has an image showing the various WarShips, for example) but I've simply not had time so far - I've been working on trying to get as much of the text as possible in place first, to give us a viable bank of articles to work from. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:50, 5 April 2013 (PDT)

Design QuirksEdit

Hy BM, hope the con stress don't suck you out!. Can you take a look on the Design Quirks page, i built at this time the main body of the page, but any support or critism is welcome, to change some parts, oh and a little bit fluff writing i need, you known i have a lack off this  --Doneve (talk) 20:03, 5 April 2013 (PDT)

Hy Doneve, I've spent six or seven hours today encoding video footage and testing builds for DVD structures, but it's been productive. I've been working with a friend, and we went to a small comics fair here this morning and had a huge lunch at our favourite restaurant here in town to fortify us! It's going to be a really busy couple of weeks while I try and get everything sorted.
I had a look at the Quirks page, dug out my hard copy of Strat Ops, and tried adding some fluff for the first half dozen negative Quirks. Is what I've added the sort of thing you were looking for? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 14:05, 6 April 2013 (PDT)
Great thank's a lot, iam in trouble, more response on next day.--23:04, 6 April 2013 (PDT)
BM, have this award for helping out with fluff writing  , thanks so much.--Doneve (talk) 10:59, 7 April 2013 (PDT)
I'm happy to be of help, and very flattered with the ribbon, thank you   Can I help with whatever the trouble is that you're in? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 11:18, 7 April 2013 (PDT)
Hy, you can't help by my trouble, the water pipe in our house was broken grml, but all is fixed now, a hail to our instellateur, oh and thanks to finish the quirks fluff writing, but i notice a redirect problem, i want to create redirects to the various quirks, but when i list; example: #REDIRECTList of Negative Design Quirks#Gas Hog there is red linked, i don't know if this is a problem why i use the style box template for the quirks.--Doneve (talk) 14:51, 8 April 2013 (PDT)
Hy Doneve, I can't do anything about the water pipe other than be sympathetic, but I've fixed the links for the design quirks for you. Redirects only work within a table of contents structure, so I reformatted the page - it gives it a stupidly long table of contents, but now you can use Design Quirks#Gas Hog to point straight at the Quirk - as in, Gas Hog. Hope that helps! I'll carry on working through the Quirks from TRO: Prototypes tomorrow after I've slept a little. Should be done soon! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 15:09, 8 April 2013 (PDT)
And again thanks so much, i know now where the mistake comes from.--Doneve (talk) 15:26, 8 April 2013 (PDT)

Erinyes (Vessel)Edit

Hy BM, hope all is well with you, when you have time can you take a look on the Erinyes (Vessel) page, thanks.--Doneve (talk) 09:50, 20 April 2013 (PDT)

Hy Doneve, I'm feeling good now that most of the work for the convention is done! Another few weeks, and it'll be over and I'll be able to go back to my regular lifestyle   I made a few minor copyedits to the Erinyes and added a couple of references from Jihad: Final Reckoning, but the article itself looks good! Thanks for adding the Erinyes - I think it's something that crops up in BattleCorps stories, which makes working out what's been said about it a bit tricky. I was deliberately putting it off! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 10:03, 20 April 2013 (PDT)


Please take a look on the heat discussion on Erinyes (Vessel) talk page, i love BT, but i found so many incossistent thinks (yeah sarna have a lak), but i found the problems on the bad consensus on the forum, or better said on the CGL talks. The other is the errata, look on [Tachtical Operiation] we have one to ??? errata downloads on the CGL page, i must laught when i read the post on BT forum, and i can talk some more to the other rule books, and the other side is on the old BT forum (before there was hacked), there had a lot of errata i can't found on the new, why they not restord it, on the main BT page, i mean Field Manuals, Mercenaries Supplemental and so on, i must cray, with best regards to others there read this.

I think you are very interestest on this Engineer blog, please read from the bottom of the blog.

--Doneve (talk) 17:58, 22 April 2013 (PDT)

It does bug me that the errata for a number of documents like the Field Manuals and all of the FanPro-era documents are basically missing. It's one reason why when I quote a correction from the Ask The Writers forum, I always include the detail of the answer as well as a link to it - I've found a number of cases, particularly with WarShips, where someone's quoting a correction here, but the link leads back to what must've been a past iteration of the forum, which has since been deleted. I've been tracking a few answers on my user page, but because I was never registered with the previous forum I can't get at any of the answers apparently stored in the forum archive - and even the Wayback Machine doesn't have copies of them  
I read the Bad Syntax's blog periodically - he and I differ on the importance of some things, but I share his frustration with how often relatively simple questions to clarify what look like errors don't get answered. Some writers are really good at responding quickly, but sometimes the questions never get answered, and that's very disappointing. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:02, 23 April 2013 (PDT)

Welcoming new contributorsEdit

Guys, I really appreciate it when editors reach out to new contributors here, like you did with Nuclear-Fridge. If there is anything that will help encourage people to do more than just a single drive-by edit, it is personal recognition and you both knocked it out of the ballpark with him. Really, thanks.--Revanche (talk|contribs) 12:19, 25 April 2013 (PDT)

No problem   I know that getting some recognition for my edits early on was a big motivating factor for me, and both Nuclear-Fridge and Mattiator seem to have made strong starts here, so it felt entirely appropriate to give them some recognition and hopefully encourage them to keep their efforts up. I'm encouraged by the fact that Mattiator is writing complete articles, while Nuclear-Fridge looks like a very effective copy-editor. Hopefully, they'll both stick around! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 23:50, 25 April 2013 (PDT)
You won't have to worry about that; I think I'll be here for the long haul... Nuclear-Fridge (talk) 10:50, 27 August 2013 (GMT)

Break WellEdit

Enjoy your con! --Revanche (talk|contribs) 18:45, 30 April 2013 (PDT)

Break WellEdit

Enjoy your con! --Revanche (talk|contribs) 18:46, 30 April 2013 (PDT)

I will, if I ever get there   At the moment, the deadline for finishing the con programme in print-ready format is Friday night, and I'm still waiting for the playlist one of the ten or twelve vidshows and panels, as well as details on a premiering vid (or not) in another show, plus I'm still waiting for one show's worth of vids to be uploaded so that I can compile the DVD for them - fixing any encoding problems along the way, some of which I need help from other people - and while it's not keeping me up at nights yet, I'm starting to look forward to the con being over so there'll be nothing left for me to worry about... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 23:34, 30 April 2013 (PDT)

Ship Notes for WriteupEdit

  • Kobayashi and Invader-class Fox's Bane used by Highlanders for strike on Wayside V, 3058; ships transported include Overlord-class DropShip "Claymore". - Ref: Impetus of War, p. 64. Other DropShips transported included Bull Run, Retribution and Stonewall. - Ref: Impetus of War, p. 70.
  • Smoke Jaguar JumpShip Admiral Andrews - Ref: Exodus Road, p. 155 DropShip Dhava, Mohawk, Stealthy Cat - Ref: Exodus Road, p. 161 (Note planet name for later article: Pivot Prime, Caliban Nebula). Admiral Andrews is Odyssey-class (p. 141)
  • DropShip Lobo Negro, Clan Wolf - Grave Covenant, p. 14. DropShip Barbarossa, p. 259. FWL/CC JumpShip King of Monkeys - Grave Covenant, p. 181
  • Achilles DropShip Bisan, Invader JumpShip Alkmarr - Ref The Hunters, p. 74 (planet named Resistance in Defiance system)
  • LCS Yo' Mama - WarShip used as a transport by the Stealths on their Feb 21 2826 raid to recover the freighter Chahar Profit from the Combine Darius system. Presumably a WarShip, as it made a "screaming run" on the planet. Ref: HS(TLC), p. 50, "Rescue of the Chahar Profit"
  • LCS Stringfire and Evereft: Two JumpShips that became entangled and destroyed in a misjump due to attempting to jump while too close together during the opening stages of the Long March. Ref: HS(TLC), p. 21, "Long March, Hard March"
  • LCS Spellsinger - "combat JumpShip" - and LCS Firewalker - "another JumpShip", ca. 2532, associated with Long March? Check hardcopy. Ref: HS(TLC), p. 22, "Jump"
  • CSJ Griffin - Smoke Jag Lola III attached to Delta Galaxy and destroyed in Matamoros system in 3060 - Shadows of War p. 39
  • CSJ Ripper & CSJ Azov - Smoke Jag Vincent Mk. 42s attached to Delta Galxy, escaped Matamoros system longside CSJ Korat. - Shadows of War p. 39. Azov destroyed over Huntress by the Starlight.
  • Descending Storm - CSJ Overlord-C class DropShip - Shadows of War p. 43
  • Banbridge - Com Guard SERPENT Monolith - Shadows of War p. 49
  • CSJ Simas Osis - CSJ Vincent Mk. 42, destroyed by the Starlight over Huntress when both ships collided - Shadows of War p. 53
  • Honor and Integrity - two DropShips assigned to the Invisible Truth, rescued the Crew of the Emerald - Shadows of War p. 62

Support offerEdit

Hello BrokenMnemonic,

I follow your work for some time and say tnx for your great work. I'm not a good writer in english because that is not my native language. But I can offer my support for your work. For example: I find many maps in my database which I missing in your article so fare. I talking about the maps of the sldf forces in field manual 2750 or the reunificaction war. I could provide for your sldf overview corps and army insignia in high quality with out the grey back ground. At last I find a good solution to show the border changes of the different states from two different time dates for example: the Outworld Alliance lost many planets to the Federated Suns and the Draconis Combine after the Reunification War.

With best regards

Neuling (talk) 13:36, 20 May 2013 (PDT)

Hi Neuling,
Any help is gratefully accepted!   I haven't had much opportunity to do work with maps in some time now, so anything you want to add by way of maps and logos will be useful. It's going to be some time before I catch up with FM:2750 and the two Liberation of Terra volumes, but I'm a great believer in the idea that we should have as much relevant information as possible in every article, and maps are a big part of that. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:46, 22 May 2013 (PDT)

Hope all is wellEdit

Hy, sorry for the late response, i needed my holidays and had a great time with the family, but the bomb was exploded when i back at home, the pc killed his self, now iam back at yesterday, have a new machine, hm yes with WIN8 but it works very well, but my bigest problem is, i lost all my BT database and the backup files, i can't cry, now i'm in rebulding process to build a new databasw (yes yes) with better security and so on, i lost all infos and images, arg arg arg. Oh and i see User: Nuclear Fringe do a great job on sarna, great to have new guys on sarna.--Doneve (talk) 16:14, 22 May 2013 (PDT)

Your PC died? No wonder you've been quiet! I hope it doesn't take you too long to rebuild your machine? I'm going to have to rebuild my PC fairly soon, as the operating system is edging closer and closer to just falling over sideways, but I've got so many programmes on there related to video editing that I'm reluctant to break. Is the hard disk in your old machine completely fried, or will you be able to use data recovery tools to get some of you information back? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 01:27, 24 May 2013 (PDT)
The hard disk is also death, no chance to restore data, i buy last week a new pc, and he works very well, and now i rebuilt my BT database, the half is finished.--Doneve (talk) 07:45, 24 May 2013 (PDT)

Background MapsEdit

Hello BrokenMnemonic, I'm working also on the maps but haven't find a simple way to colorize the background at the maps. Can you explain it to my how you do this and what programs are involved. Please.

With best regards Neuling (talk) 15:09, 1 June 2013 (PDT)

Hi Neuling,
It depends on how the maps are already coloured and whether I'm at work at home. At home, I use Adobe Photoshop CS 2; at work, I use Paint Shop Pro 9. I do the bulk of the recolouring using the colour fill tool, having picked the colours out of the 3130 map issued by Oysten for MechWarrior:DA (as that has the widest range of colours for affiliations in it). The colour fill tool replaces the bulk of the background colour; I then usually use the colour replace tool to swap out the remaining areas of background colour.
It's a little tricky in places because the maps in the various published .pdfs are vector drawn maps from some sort of GIS Illustrator package, which means that the text resizes depending on what scale the map is taken at, and the font uses multiple colours to generate shading effects within the shape of the letters themselves. This often means that the text will look odd after the maps have been recoloured depending on how the recolouring was done and at what size the maps were copied - sometimes I have to take a copy of the original map at different levels of zoom to get a balance between the amount of area needed for the map in use here and keeping the font legible. It's usually easier to recolour elements of maps that are grey rather than white because of how the original illustrator program handles the shading of fonts.
Does that help at all? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 01:57, 3 June 2013 (PDT)

Faslane shipsEdit

Just reviewing Interstellar Players 3: Interstellar Expeditions, and found that three of them were transferred to Terra to supplement the titan shipyards. I know that there were two destroyed at Columbus base, so I think the three that survived were the Dover, Dun Laoghaire, and the Glamorgan. If you would double check me though, that would be good. (I was just going on the articles that said "this ship was supposed to have survived the Jihad, but ultimately failed to survive the Jihad." I don't know if those ships are the ones that were definitely destroyed.)

Thanks!--Mbear(talk) 07:36, 4 June 2013 (PDT)

Hi Mbear,
I've been meaning to rework the articles for a while. The confusion stems from Oystein declaring all of the ships to have been destroyed in response to a question over on the forums, my having to work out by a process of elimination which were the last three to have been destroyed from various Jihad entries, and then a later sourcebook indicating that some of them had actually survived after all. I asked a question over on the forum to clarify, but I can't remember what the exact answer was - I remember logging a link to it for when I caught up with the sourcebook that included the change, but I haven't got to it yet. There are so many named vessels and so little time... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 07:44, 4 June 2013 (PDT)

Maps, responseEdit

Hello BrokenMnemonic, thanks first for your response of my question. I found a way to create the maps an other way. Can you take alook at my pag: User:Neuling/map-test and tell me your impression about and what could be done better. I incoporate the changes from 3067 to 3075 at various borders. I hope you can enjoy them in some way. Neuling (talk) 11:07, 15 June 2013 (PDT)

I hope you get my message.Neuling (talk) 04:29, 16 June 2013 (PDT)
Strange no response yet, but I think you have reasons which are not clear to me.Neuling (talk) 05:17, 16 June 2013 (PDT)
I've taken a look at the maps, and they look good to me - you've kept the names clearly legible, and the color scheme matches the one Catalyst use most commonly. I'm rather surprised you've managed to find a decent electronic copy of the map in Jihad Secrets to work from - every copy I've seen is an image, rather than a vector drawing, which means it doesn't scale when enlarged. Those maps should actually give us clear maps of the Malagrotta Cooperative for the first time, amongst other states. What are you planning on doing with them? At the least, each nation/faction deserves to get a local map within their pages here on Sarna to show the 3075 borders. Did you add the border changes yourself, or are they on the original source map? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 01:58, 18 June 2013 (PDT)
I have taken an review of my available sources. That means entire maps for
Inner Sphere
  • 2596 (After Reunification War)
  • 2750|2764 (during Star League Era)
  • 2866 (1st Succession War)
  • 3025 (3rd Succession War)
  • 3030 (4th Succession War)
  • 3040 (after War of 3039)
  • 3050 (before Operation Revival)
  • 3052 (after Clan Invasion)
  • 3063 (after Operation Bulldog)
  • 3067 (after Fed-Com Civil War)
  • 3075 (during Jihad)
  • 3081 (after Jihad)
  • 3085 (Republic Era)
  • 3130 (Beginning of Dark Age)
  • 3135 (After HPG Black Out)
  • 3145 (Republic Fortress)
additional the maps from the various Historicals and Housebooks. When needed with the territorial Changes. With best regards Neuling (talk) 11:50, 20 June 2013 (PDT)

Operation ????Edit

I read what you placed on BobTheZombie's talk page and it got me thinking about what to do with the Operations that are already in place on the wiki site. The example that I bring up is the Operation LIBERATION which I redirected to Operation Liberation since it was already created and not to have two of the same things on the site. Instead of redirecting LIBERATION to Liberation, should I have instead copied the information from the already created page and pasted it into the capital form of the operation and then did the reversal of the redirect? DerangedShadow (talk) 12:04, 24 June 2013 (PDT)

For the existing Operations, what I've been doing depends on how many places the operations are mentioned in. Where they crop up in lots of articles, I just go with a REDIRECT, but where there are only a couple of links, I'll create a redlink for the revised title and then move it across.
The reason I noticed the MAILED FIST links changing is that I've been using the same format consistently throughout my work on Historical: Reunification War, which means that there are more than a hundred articles using the capitalized form, and I've been doing the same thing with Operation APOTHESIS as and when I work through Historical: Liberation of Terra Volume 1. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:17, 24 June 2013 (PDT)

Apocryphal content, part 2Edit

BrokenMnemonic, could you drop by Template talk:ApocryphalContent please? I've made a couple templates and I'd like your feedback. Thanks!--Mbear(talk) 07:24, 28 June 2013 (PDT)

Blake Documents MapsEdit

Hy BM, i moved the 3075 maps to the BattleTechWiki:Project Planets/Planet Overhaul/Faction Map Gallery, take a look.--Doneve (talk) 16:30, 9 July 2013 (PDT)

They look good, don't they? I wonder if Neuling will be producing maps from Jihad: Final Reckoning and FM: 3085 too. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 03:44, 10 July 2013 (PDT)
Sure, i talk to him.--Doneve (talk) 11:17, 10 July 2013 (PDT)
BM, i have a response from Neuling, he create maps from Jihad: Final Reckoning, FM: 3085 and Era Report: 3145 in the next week, yuhu  .--Doneve (talk) 12:56, 28 July 2013 (PDT)

Hidden FiveEdit

BrokenMnemonic, will you be creating a page for the Hidden Five or should I go ahead and put a redirect from that page to The Five page? DerangedShadow (talk) 13:43, 12 July 2013 (PDT)

At the moment, I think Frabby's indicated that he wants to write the article on the Five - I'd say put up a redirect now, and then he can rework it if he wants to. I do want to expand the articles on the individual hidden worlds when I get a chance - ISP3:IE is the next book I want to work on when I've finished the Rim Worlds campaign from the Reunification War and need a break from vessel articles. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 13:46, 12 July 2013 (PDT)

Owner HistoryEdit

Hy BM, thanks so much for helping out with the owner history, i know there is also a lot of work and updating, thanks, have this award from me  , oh and BobTheZombie do also a great work, he becomes my next award.--14:08, 20 July 2013 (PDT)

Hy Doneve, thanks for the award   I like pottering around updating owner histories, as it's quietly satisfying. Work's getting busier, which is making it harder to find time for bigger article changes, but I'm hoping I can keep adding in owner history details even on busy days. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 08:57, 21 July 2013 (PDT)


Here is a short list of planets that need infoboxes, so fill them in when you want; I'll put more here as time moves on.

Thanks man, -BobTheZombie (talk) 11:42, 23 July 2013 (PDT)

Hy BM, i want to help with the infoboxes, oh when you started please add all Era Specific data in the infoboxes, now i dig out my hard copys and pdf's and double check the data, oh i forgot to say some planet pages have a infobox but not our new where i and you used in the past, i think i stard with the not up to data infoboxes.--Doneve (talk) 11:57, 23 July 2013 (PDT)
Hy Doneve,
I'm more than happy for you to help   It's a bit difficult for me to add in all the era data, though - most of the time I'm working from books I have on CD at work, and the CDs I've got at the moment are still geared towards the long-term projects I'm working on (Reunification War, Amaris Civil War, Jihad) so I'm a bit short on Era Reports, housebooks, and Field Manuals, especially the more recent ones. I'll add in what I can, though. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:34, 23 July 2013 (PDT)
Hehe i do also the most of the owner history updates at work  , ok i have all also as pdf's, and stard in the next days with the Era Reports, Handbooks and so on.--Doneve (talk) 13:07, 23 July 2013 (PDT)
I have a feeling the info for Talitha comes from one of the BattleTechnology Issus and is apocryphal.--Doneve (talk) 10:51, 29 July 2013 (PDT)10:36, 29 July 2013 (PDT)
That would explain why I can't find anything - I've been through the House books and Handbooks, The Star League, DA: Republic Worlds, 25YOAAF and M&M, and I can't find a profile for Talitha in any of them. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 10:40, 29 July 2013 (PDT)

For Your Review - Beta RegimentEdit

Beta Regiment (Wolf's Dragoons) has been posted. Thanks. ClanWolverine101 (talk) 00:07, 25 July 2013 (PDT)

Maps ProjectEdit

Hello BM, I started my map project as promised and you can take the files to the corresponding places if needed. In the near future I can upload more maps in that quality. I will complete the maps for the entire Inner Sphere before I start with the topic/faction specific content. I would be nice to get a short review of my work. With best regards Neuling (talk) 07:46, 15 August 2013 (PDT)


Hi Neuling,
I like what you've done with the maps very much. I've been browsing through the 3085 maps, and they're very clear and readable, and all nicely cropped and bordered to show the subject region. There's an odd artefact on Sarna where the font isn't as crisp in the preview as it is when the full image is viewed, but I think that's simply an offshot of how Sarna handles certain image types.
I'm intrigued by the 3130 maps you've generated, which show what I think are dotted lines for the 3085-era borders - am I guessing correctly there? If I am, it'd be worth adding that detail to the file description for each file, so that it's clear to people browsing what the dotted lines show, as I think we're getting a fair number of people browsing from MW:O who probably don't have as much background knowledge of the maps as you or I.
The only thing I'd change about them is that it would be handy to have the interstellar scale shown on each map, so that when someone's looking at one of the maps in isolation, they have an idea of how large a region of space they're looking at. That's often particularly useful when looking at smaller states like some of the Periphery nations - areas like the Chainelane Isles, the Tortuga Dominions and so on, where it's useful to know how much space they take up (and sometimes, where they are in relation to everyone else).
As it is, the maps are definitely great for letting people working on the planetary histories use as research, and I'd be happy to include them in the galleries on faction pages and the like. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 02:45, 16 August 2013 (PDT)

Destrier & 3145 FedSun ArticlesEdit

Hi BrokenMnemonic, i'm working on the Destrier at the moment. If you an hold off making an article for this vehicle. I'd appreciate it. Sincerely -- Wrangler (talk) 08:27, 18 August 2013 (PDT)

Hi Wrangler, no problem - I'm working through the book at the moment for a bit of variety; when I've done the AeroSpace Fighters, I'll move on to the battle armor. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 09:10, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
Okay Dokey. I didn't want step on your toes doing articles since your going at faster pace than I am. I'll hit Combat Vehicles article backwards from Destrier. Good luck and thanks! -- Wrangler (talk) 11:56, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
Don't worry, every time I hit something new I have to learn how to do it from scratch - I've been scratching my head over Battle Armor articles for about an hour now   If I finish with the battle armor before you've done all the vehicles, I'll start at the light end and work up. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:26, 18 August 2013 (PDT)


Hellooooo BM,  , hope all is well with you, i notice your 'Mech etc. articles and i give you for your diligent work your next   award, i hope we dig out all the red links on the various TRO:3145 books, iam in work to update all manufacuturing pages by the 3145 TROs, cheers.--Doneve (talk) 08:36, 18 August 2013 (PDT)

Hy Doneve!   I've got my parents visiting at the moment, so I'm getting quite a bit of editing done here while they control my tv. I stumbled across a link for an update needed from TRO:3145 Fed Suns, and decided I should get more practise with 'Mech articles and the like - although I'm not doing a particularly good job of it, judging by the number of edits Raven and Bob have had to make to bring the articles up to scratch. Still, it's a learning experience.
I'm a little nervous about the manufacturing articles. What's the protocol for adding components to a particular manufacturer? I was looking at the Rondel, and while the Rondel's manufactured on Firgrove, and it looks like the frame is too, the engine's a VOX, the armor's made by Wangker, the T&T system is made by Jalastar, the comms system by Randar and the weaposn by Mydron and Diverse Optics. How do you tell if they're being imported and fitted, or manufactured locally?
Thank you for the award, btw   I'm trying to make sure I remember to do things like capture all the variants, including those from record sheets, and include things like pictures and design quirks, but I'm convinced I'm missing things. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 09:22, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
Haha hope your parents enjoy the TV . The protocol for adding components is not clear, i talk in the past to Revanche, if we need a policy or help template, but he say nah not needed, but i think we need this. I construted the manufacturing pages to my own flow of how they look's the components and so on, and don't became any critism and feedback, but i feel we need some clarification about this, have you any ideas, i removed at first the double 'Mech, Vehicles etc. links on some pages. Oh and the other think is the component links, take a look on the Communications System page, i started in the past to revamp this but its a lot to do, and look to the Jump Jets i added the brands section and on the Fusion Engine page, i do a lot of work on this. If you have any ideas talk please tell me how we can handle this. I know Rev is at this time not active, but Mbear and Frabby are good to answer some thinks.--Doneve (talk) 09:43, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
How about, for components that are made by a different company, but where we don't know from which site - like the Wangker armor on the Rondel - we list it in a seperate section on the page for the manufacturer's page, marked something like "Exported Components", with an explanation of "The following components are exported to other companies by Wangker for use on the listed vehicles/fighters/systems, but the original manufacturing site is currently undocumented"?
My parents are currently watching Endeavour - and I'm hoping the fluffy white cat from two doors up the road comes down to play, so that I have an excuse to hide in the back garden for a bit   BrokenMnemonic (talk) 09:52, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
With the components ideas is great, i used this when i updated some manufacturing pages and use MadCapllans Objective Raid: 3067 meta source, they use the shipped to explanation, yes OR:3067 is a meta soure, but i was add this time to tired to check the source books, all of OR is cannon but MadCapllan has only added the sources in the entire text and no ref. notes. A good example is the Jalastar Aerospace page, i talk to Rev in the past if he can review the page, and take a look on this, really good work, but he talk to me he must dig out 10 or 20 books and need 4-5hours to add some info. Ok i work at this time my way to add all components from the sources to the pages, changes and some correction we can do everytime.--Doneve (talk) 10:05, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
I'm completely intimidated by the Communications systems page - but I'll do what I can to help out with the manufacturing pages as I go through. In fact, I'll make a start now... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 11:06, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
Thanks bud, i appriciate this.--Doneve (talk) 11:10, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
I've added a prototype table to the Dynamico Limited page to account for the ExoStar weapons being used on various platforms in TRO:3145 Fed Suns - does it look like it's workable to you? I thought the two longest fields would be the company name and the product name, but while I've tried to be complete, the table looks rather cluttered to me. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 11:35, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
Yeah this is great, good formating and view, but the whole think, we must create a policy, the most of the relevant pages has a policy and i want to become a ambassador with you, to support and provide a policy for the manufacturing pages, we set up a talk to Mbear and Frabby how we do this, its an idea, but i think it works very well.--Doneve (talk) 12:07, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
So, how do we go about getting a policy set up? I'm definitely up for helping - I like neatly organized information, and just like the whole independent planets issue, I like us having a mechanism to avoid committing to detail we can't confirm. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:24, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
If I said "nah", it's probably because I knew I couldn't understand the issue, the 'mechanics' of the components project, to craft one. However, if editors feel there needs to be some standardization via policy, them I'm all for supporting it (albeit from a distance, in this case).
BM, Doneve asked me to review this and I'm gonna latch on to your last statement: getting a policy set up. Here's my guidance:
  1. Start writing it. Take a look at Policy:Blocking and copy the format (as a start). Use those templates, for they'll put it in the right category (for the time being) and just take a swing at it.
  2. Invite commentary. Contact an admin (flexing my wikicode, not because you need to know whom the admins are) to place the discussion on the Community Chatterweb, and you go to the pre-policy's talkpage to start it up. Take a look at the talk pages of some of the newer polices to see how to prepare to control chaos.
  3. Give the discussion some time to build, make changes to your writing where they become obvious and hold consensus calls on larger issues.
  4. When you think you've got it sorted out, lock the discussion down, announce the results, amend the pre-policy and let it loose.
  5. Don't forget to get the new policy released as a main page newsburst.
Please let me know if you need any guidance.--Revanche (talk|contribs) 19:17, 18 August 2013 (PDT)

Production Years & 3145Edit

Hi BrokenMnemonics. I was looking at articles your doing, and i have suggestion regarding the delimema with lack of production years. Is possible if you could be leaving them out of the info box instead of siting the question marks? It doesn't look that good, the lack of year can be addressed in the main body of the article better until the MUL catches up and gives us exact year. I've been mentioning the decade or what part of the century it first appear in since they do give rough estimate of when it showed up. -- Wrangler (talk) 12:01, 18 August 2013 (PDT)

I step in. I disagree Wrangler. The Mul list was not updated at this time for the various TRO3145 publications, and links works when a introduction is availible on the MUL site, to include on the semantic wike BattleMech Timetable, i think this make sens.--Doneve (talk) 12:13, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
I don't follow exactly how the semantic code works, but my understanding is that if I don't include something - either the question marks or something else - it breaks the smeantic wiki code in the articles, so that's why I've been using the question marks. If that's wrong, I'm happy to change. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:17, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
Add the production and intro row, its a little thing to add the year when we hav info and fix the mul link.--Doneve (talk) 12:21, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
by taking out the ???? the line item of the year will disappear. Thus no problems here. I've found the semantic code works doesn't work all the time, Doneve. Specially when there no number/year to work with. When MUL is update later on, we'll have production year and that can be added to the I've been researching when certain evens yet mentioned in the Era Reports (waiting for Era Digest: Dark Age) to come out. Some the FedSun vehicles for example the Hanse MBT was produced just after the Victoria War. Era Report: 3145 doesn't say WHEN this conflict happen. 25 Years of Art & Fiction DOES list when the war happened and when it ended. Being one few canon source info available. Anyways, Leaving the Production year blanked (removing ???) will be make article look less confusing. Specially if its cited. Like Doneve said, it can be filled out later when we get MUL updated. Its become only canon source of actual years of production when even TROs aren't listing them. -- Wrangler (talk) 12:59, 18 August 2013 (PDT)

Manufacturing Center policyEdit

I add a link to our dissucion about the manufacturing center policy to Frabby and Mbear, i hope he give us some support.--Doneve (talk) 16:34, 18 August 2013 (PDT)

But Rev give us a little guidance.--Doneve (talk) 20:06, 18 August 2013 (PDT)
Wow, lots to read through this morning. Life's quieter when we're just updating owner histories, isn't it?
So, what sort of things should a policy on manufacturing company pages cover? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 03:08, 19 August 2013 (PDT)
My first thoughts:
1. Overview
2. History
3. Manufacturing Centers
3.1. Manufacturing center location (system) and status (if inactive destroyed in SOMEYEAR)
3.2. Units produced in the manufacturing center (Units = Whole unit like 'Mech, Fighter, battle armor, etc.)
3.3. Components created at that facility (if known)
3.4. Components that may be produced by the company but in an unknown location. (IMO, this is a "nice to have" category. If contributor doesn't invest time in it, I wouldn't complain.)
4. References
5. Bibliography
Does that help?--Mbear(talk) 05:15, 19 August 2013 (PDT)
That does, thank you. I can see section 3.4 being the largest, if we're sweeping up everything, simply because looking through TRO:3145FS has shown me that there are a lot of companies that we lack detail on, and a lot of TRO entries where it isn't clear where stuff is coming from. I can't see TPTB ever answering questions about whether Greenock is manufacturing the Mydron Autocannon/Diverse Optics ER Med Lasers/Jalastar targeting system for the Rondel on Firgrove under licence, or importing them, and if importing them, from where - so all we know for certain is that Mydron Autocannons are fitted to the Rondel, which is assembled on Firgrove.
I'm maybe a little over-sensitive after all the anti-Sarna sniping on the CGL forum about people here just "making stuff up", but I really don't like making assumptions about where stuff's made and where it's not, if that makes sense? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 08:39, 19 August 2013 (PDT)
Excellent Mbear and BM. Now the next step who is willing to write the policy, oh and thanks BM for helping out on the Communications System page, but its a lot to do, please take a look on the comsys talk page, this give you some headache, Neuling added at first all to the comsys page and i moved the content to the talk page, i used this mess to create the most entries and double check the sources.--Doneve (talk) 09:46, 19 August 2013 (PDT)
Hy again, i think we add all components to the manufacturing pages, when its not clear who the component is produced we add a seperate section on the manufacturer page, make this sense.--Doneve (talk) 11:03, 19 August 2013 (PDT)
So we need something like this:
1. Overview
2. History
3. Manufacturing Centers
3.1. Manufacturing center location (system) and status (if inactive destroyed in SOMEYEAR)
3.2. Units produced in the manufacturing center (Units = Whole unit like 'Mech, Fighter, battle armor, etc.)
3.3. Components created at that facility (if known)
3.4. Components that may be produced by the company but in an unknown location.
3.5 Components that may be produced by another company without a Sarna entry, but which are used in this Manufacturer's products.
4. References
5. Bibliography
I'm not sure I've worded 3.5 very clearly. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:03, 19 August 2013 (PDT)
3.5. Imported Components (I think that's what BM is trying to say.)--Mbear(talk) 12:16, 27 August 2013 (PDT)
Yep your are right, but added we the components to a seperate table or use the note section for this?--Doneve (talk) 12:20, 27 August 2013 (PDT)
I assume by "note section" you're referring to the ==Notes== section on some pages. I would think that putting it in a table in the Notes section would probably be for the best. That way we could say "These components have no sarna article." Then when we get the article started, we can move the content there. --Mbear(talk) 04:52, 28 August 2013 (PDT)
Actually now that I think about it more, I wonder if we could use the Semantic MediaWiki stuff to populate the manufacturing center page. On pages with 'Mechs and other combat units, we have production year info available, thanks to Doneve. On the weapon pages we also have the manufacturing info available for various models. So maybe we could automatically populate sections 3.2 through 3.4 if we added some SMW extensions.--Mbear(talk) 04:52, 28 August 2013 (PDT)
This with the semantic stuff for the manufacturer pages is a good idea, Mbear can you create a example page when you have time, i have another idea i hope it works, we create semantic wiki like Manufacturer Components then we can link this to any manufacuring center pages, its an idea in my brain but i dont know how we handle this, like template and property creation ect. ect.--Doneve (talk) 06:40, 28 August 2013 (PDT)

Communications SystemsEdit

BM when you add comsys to the page please update also the infobox of the 'Mech, Vehicle, Aerospace Fighter etc. and set up a redirect, thanks.--Doneve (talk) 13:59, 19 August 2013 (PDT)

Whoops! OK, willdo. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 14:01, 19 August 2013 (PDT)


Hy BM, i updated the Greenock Aero Manufacturing, Ltd. page with components and add a note section, can you take a look if this works.--Doneve (talk) 20:16, 23 August 2013 (PDT)

I tweaked the notes section slightly, because I'm always very self-conscious about the "people on Sarna just make stuff up and claim it's true" criticism from the CGL board that gets thrown around, but I kept the bulk of what you wrote the same - what do you think? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:23, 24 August 2013 (PDT)
I think the same as you. Why has sarna so a bad reputation on the CGL forum, the most of them write stupid things and say this is true and some critism is not allowed, very sadly. Oh and i want to stard on the manufacturing pages to add note sections, when its unclear which component was produced or not produced or shiped in, make this sense.--Doneve (talk) 12:39, 24 August 2013 (PDT)
I find the CGL forums to be a generally negative place, sadly - I find myself reading them less and less because of that. I find it heartening that apparently people on the MWO forums have a much higher opinion of Sarna - I know the pithy rebuttal is "they haven't had time to know better" - but it is very frustrating to see people here working so hard to add new detail, only to then go to the CGL forums and read about how Sarna is all rubbish because someone had their edits reverted in 2007.
Anyway. I think it's a great idea to start adding notes entries explaining that a number of components are likely produced elsewhere for a lot of manufactured products - it's obvious for some, where they have the brand name of another company, but others are a bit trickier, so posting that we don't know where a lot of the components come from but have listed them for completeness seems like a very sensible thing to do. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 12:45, 24 August 2013 (PDT)
The best example is Bad Syntax, he is a great coding genius and has so many experience with BT, but he was banned from the forum, but his [4] blog is great he kick CGL in the ass with his new Alpha Strike card maker, hehehe, i love his blog, and it gives some info how negativly CGL works.--Doneve (talk) 13:09, 24 August 2013 (PDT)
I have mixed feelings about BadSyntax - I think he's a nice guy, and a seriously dedicated and skilled fan, but I don't think he was ever going to fit in well on the CGL forum, because he was always looking for a level of technical or infrastructure detail that the CGL guys are not only never going to be able to provide, but actively won't because of the constraints it would put them under. It's a bit like suspension of disbelief; CGL rely on it heavily, because some aspects of BTech are just broken - FASAnomics being the best example. Either they have to tie themselves down with huge amounts of detail, or people need to just handwave it and not worry about such things. CGL are very much looking to do the latter, and I think in some places BadSyntax does that too - I've never seen him worry about the number of JumpShips needed to feed planets, for example - but what he thought was a reasonable level of detail on some areas was more than CGL were willing or able to provide.
I've noticed that there are some people on the forum who are very antagonistic towards the writers and line developers. That's never a good thing, and I think it plays into the negative feeling I get from the forums, and I also think that's one of the reasons BadSyntax ended up having such a hard time there - the more that TPTB feel under attack, the more defensive they're going to be. That's human nature, sadly.
I really like BadSyntax's alpha strike cards - they remind me of Medron Pryde's standups and QS cards, which are another great fanwork for BattleTech. I hope his work gets the recognition it deserves! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 13:48, 24 August 2013 (PDT)

JLN-5A Juliano & Component ArticlesEdit

Hi BrokenMnemonic, can you leave the Juliano for me to do? -- Wrangler (talk) 16:07, 26 August 2013 (PDT)

Willdo! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 23:02, 26 August 2013 (PDT)
Hy guys, i notice we have some red links on Technical Readout: 3145 Draconis Combine, Technical Readout: 3145 Capellan Confederation and Technical Readout: 3145 Mercenaries.--Doneve (talk) 16:17, 26 August 2013 (PDT)
I've been working on those them. -- Wrangler (talk) 16:47, 26 August 2013 (PDT)
I can only work on the TROs when I'm at home, but I've just been picking one and working through it. If Wrangler doesn't beat me to it I'll get to the others too, although by the time I've chased down all the component links it takes a while to do each entry. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 23:02, 26 August 2013 (PDT)
I'm working on actual vehicle/mech articles, however I'm not terribly good with component articles. I must applaud you and Doneve for untaking such a task. BrokenMnemonic, I'm uncertain how we can display them all. Communication Equipment articles (8/27/13) looks bad and uninformative with all those different models of communication Equipment. I think a seperate or hidden list should be made for all those components. If all them needs to be shown in one place. There almost virtually no fluff on the individual components. -- Wrangler (talk) 16:40, 27 August 2013 (PDT)
Hy Wrangler i jump in, must stay now at hospital and have some time. I know what you mean the comsys article looks bad, but when i dig out all comsys from the talk page and datamine it would become a style change, take a look on the comsys talk page you become some headache, we seperate the entries when all comsys on the page. Take a look as example on the Jump Jets page and go to the brands section, then you know what i mean.--Doneve (talk) 16:50, 27 August 2013 (PDT)


Hy BM, i send you a email from sarna, can you give a respone if the mail comes to you, thanks.--Doneve (talk) 14:25, 28 August 2013 (PDT)

Hy Doneve, I got the email but I can't respond until this evening as I'm at work - it definitely arrived though, I read it on my phone on the way to work this morning. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 01:03, 29 August 2013 (PDT)

map project continuedEdit

Hello BM, I will continue to upload the maps for the different factions and the time frame when available. I send Mr. Oystein an message but received no anwser yet. I think their should no problem when I put at every uploaded maps the notice about the fair use policy. What is your opinion about that topic? Neuling (talk) 09:44, 31 August 2013 (PDT)

It'd probably be best to ask Frabby - my opinion is that it should be ok for you to upload them, provided you're willing to delete them if Øystein asks you too, but I'd be happier if Frabby signed off as he's dealt with Øystein directly in the past. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 14:25, 31 August 2013 (PDT)

Zeus & Zeus XEdit

Afternoon, BM. What do you think: should Zeus and Zeus X both have ==See Also== sections put in that link to the other? I'm not suggesting we add in the {{seealso|The other article}} tag, because that is used to clear up confusion between similarly named but different articles. I'm more wondering if we should have it in there as a section so that a reader has another 'chance' (other than the wikilinks in the text) to recognize there is an offshoot/related article? Again, not a suggestion; I really am wondering if it's appropriate.--Revanche (talk|contribs) 13:57, 2 September 2013 (PDT)

Belay my last; stumbled across a good example of ==Related Designs==. Ciao!--Revanche (talk|contribs) 14:38, 2 September 2013 (PDT)
Hy guys the Zeus X is a stand alone model and need his own page, i involved with Frabby in the past about this problem as exampel Hollander I or Hollander II etc.--Doneve (talk) 21:55, 2 September 2013 (PDT)
A ==Related Designs== subsection in the Zeus X sounds like a great idea - I feel daft for not thinking of it last night, but I was rushing before bed and determined to get at least one contribution to Sarna done yesterday. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:29, 3 September 2013 (PDT)


Hi BrokenMnemonic. I wanted to check with you about your edit on Graus. Why are you saying Graus was completed held by the Jade Falcons by 3086? Page your referring (46 in Jihad Final Recking) to is 3068. By 3085 the planet is within the Lyran commonwealth. Field Manuel 3085 show it as such. Is that typo? -- Wrangler (talk) 19:14, 5 September 2013 (PDT)

Hi Wranger, I've checked my notes (and the reference) and my editing history, and that's a typo - it was meant to be 3068 and was entered as such in the owner history, but I evidently had an attack of finger trouble when adding the narrative to the planetary history. I've fixed it now - thanks for letting me know. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:48, 6 September 2013 (PDT)
No Problem. Sternensturm ‎Omnifighter article clued me in on something was wrong. The fighter debut on Graus while the 2nd Donegal Guards were "defending" the planet from exploratory raid in 3099 from 3rd Falcon Talons. FM:3085 shows the planet now in Lyran Commonwealth (then alliance) hands. When I have time later I'm going update Graus if someone don't beat me to it. There was alot changing of hands on that planet. -- Wrangler (talk) 06:08, 6 September 2013 (PDT)


Hy BM, when you found time, can you update the Neanderthal page, with TRO:3145FWL info, thanks.--Doneve (talk) 04:00, 6 September 2013 (PDT)

Willdo - I'll need to get home first, but I'm going to leave work in about 5 minutes (hooray for Fridays!) so I should have it done in a few houres.
Did you get my reply to your email? I sent it a fair while ago now... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 05:09, 6 September 2013 (PDT)
Thanks for do this. Yep i got your mail and is respondet.--Doneve (talk) 05:42, 6 September 2013 (PDT)
Neanderthal is updated, although I need to go through and update the various component links. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 10:32, 6 September 2013 (PDT)

Aerospace Fighter Article Template RequestEdit

Hi BM, i have a request if your right person to turn to. Can you add couple things to the template. First one being a line to the info box that lets someone enter the Armor type? The second one is an easier one. Can you add a ==Notes== above Reference section. There always something going into notes, i can't imagine it not being there. Alot of the articles due lack them. Sincerely, -- Wrangler (talk) 06:14, 6 September 2013 (PDT)

Hi Wrangler, I think I've updated everything accordingly - I'd already added an Armor field last week (the Shikra article uses it) but I've also updated the template help file and the Create an AeroSpace Fighter help guide to use them, and I've added the Notes section to the article as well.
Can you give it a try with an article and see if it works properly please? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 09:05, 6 September 2013 (PDT)
Sure, give me a half-hour. I'm going see if i can transfer the old infobox from my old article to the new one see how it flies. (no pun intended. :)) -- Wrangler (talk) 09:54, 6 September 2013 (PDT)
No Dice. The armor line isn't appearing in the info box even though its there and i added information. I've only did a preview and didn't save it since i didn't want risk making mess of the original article. -- Wrangler (talk) 10:01, 6 September 2013 (PDT)
Ah-ha, I spotted my mistake - I misread the field name when updating the template help. It should work now... *crosses fingers* BrokenMnemonic (talk) 10:36, 6 September 2013 (PDT)
Congradulations, it worked!!! Thanks! -- Wrangler (talk) 10:51, 6 September 2013 (PDT)
Happy to help   BrokenMnemonic (talk) 11:22, 6 September 2013 (PDT)
Last request of the day! I noticed the combat vehicle article being up. Is there way to fix the template so "heat sinks" line's h is capitalized "H"? -- Wrangler (talk) 13:34, 6 September 2013 (PDT)
Done! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 13:36, 6 September 2013 (PDT)

Manufacturing Company PagesEdit

Hy man, the infobox looks great on both pages and works very well, thanks a lot for the creation.--Doneve (talk) 06:33, 10 September 2013 (PDT)

I'm glad it's useful! Let me know if there are any changes you want made to it. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 11:48, 10 September 2013 (PDT)
Good Evening BM, i added some infoboxes, but how we handle the company name, take a look on WC Site 4, when not a manufacturer logo image is availible we have the bold manuf. name and then the componys name, this looks not so preety, as review when a logo is on top all is ok, but when there is no one i think one manuf. name works better, make this sense to you.--Doneve (talk) 15:46, 10 September 2013 (PDT)
Hy Doneve,
I tried a couple of different fixes for that, and after playing around with it I think it looks better if I take out the company name field further down the infobox, so that the company name only appears once, in bold and at the top - I think makes the infobox look clearer and more focussed, but I can change it if you'd prefer something different? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 01:42, 11 September 2013 (PDT)
Yeah this looks better. But now the next problem, the image size, look on Alliance Defenders Limited, i added the ...px after the image name but it dont work.--Doneve (talk) 05:26, 11 September 2013 (PDT)
I've fixed the problem by adding an imagewidth field, just like the one used in the Planet template - I've just tested it with ADL, and it looks like it's working... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 06:32, 11 September 2013 (PDT)

Calliope imageEdit

Hy BM, do you know the name of the Calliope image artist, he has a signature on the pic. but iam to tired for datamining, thanks in this way for your help.--Doneve (talk) 12:36, 15 September 2013 (PDT)

Ok, Raven 2C clear this.--Doneve (talk) 12:37, 15 September 2013 (PDT)

Shen Long Battle ArmorEdit

Hi BM, I'm going work on the above named Battle Armor, so please hold up writing up something on it. Thanks! -- Wrangler (talk) 15:05, 15 September 2013 (PDT)

Willdo - I'm going to start with the Zhen Niao and work backwards. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 10:58, 16 September 2013 (PDT)

Copied from CardinalEdit

Morning, BM. An unregistered reader noted this morning that Bishop's variant section appeared to be copied from the same section from Cardinal. Would you please take a second look? I suspect you were using the latter as a complete template but didn't make the relevant change to the former, but I'm not yet familiar with the source. Thanks. --Revanche (talk|contribs) 03:18, 16 September 2013 (PDT)

Hi boss, I'll go and fix that now - I must've forgotten to update it when I was going from one article to the next. The Bishop doesn't have any variants. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 03:59, 16 September 2013 (PDT)
Good news is that your articles are in such demand that not only are people looking at them when so new, but in the detail and quantity to catch the mistakes. ;)--Revanche (talk|contribs) 04:02, 16 September 2013 (PDT)
Wrangler must be getting fan mail then, given how many of the new TRO entries he's done compared to me ;) I'm just filling in the blanks behind him, and finding new ways to break the templates... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 04:04, 16 September 2013 (PDT)


Hy BM, please review your two new created DropShip articles, on both pages is the same content, copy and past error i thing.--Doneve (talk) 06:37, 19 September 2013 (PDT)

Hy Doneve, the content is slightly different in each - one is a DropShip, the other is the JumpShip, and they were both involved in the same incident so some of the detail is the same. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 09:52, 19 September 2013 (PDT)


Wowww guys, great you clean up the categorie, and some red link are gone :).--Doneve (talk) 13:11, 1 October 2013 (PDT)

Aye, Frabby didn't like the categories being shipclass Vessels, but instead wanted shipclass DropShips/JumpShips/WarShips, and then challenged me to help out. I think I've just finished them now, although I've spotted places where there are ships I haven't written articles for yet that I need to dig out of books - do you ever feel you have too many ongoing projects at once on here? I do sometimes. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 13:17, 1 October 2013 (PDT)
You hit the nail, i struggle also in this and that project, but i concentrate me now to manufacturing pages and the comsys page, i think this is enough work for me, agh i can leave the hospital in 2 weeks, grml, i cant see a doc ore a nurse, and i need a time with me wife  .--Doneve (talk) 13:35, 1 October 2013 (PDT)
You can tear yourself away from all the pretty nurses? Either you're feeling much better or much worse   It's good news that you'll be home soon.BrokenMnemonic (talk) 14:00, 1 October 2013 (PDT)

Thanks indeed for your help BM - especially with your "help" comprising half if not the greater part of the workload. I'm a bit unsure which Award applies here (probably one that Revanche hasn't created yet) so I'll settle for a casual edit award:   Thanks for your not-so-casual massive help! Frabby (talk) 04:35, 2 October 2013 (PDT)

I think you possibly did the lion's share of the work - there are a lot of Aegis and Essex articles out there - but thank you for the award. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 06:18, 2 October 2013 (PDT)

Request regarding ship namesEdit

Hi BM, please don't use "(Vessel)" as a disambiguation for ships; always use the most accurate description possible, i.e. the specific class (if known), otherwise the type (DropShip, JumpShip, WarShip). I only use "Vessel" for ships that have the same name as their class, c.f. Quetzalcoatl (Vessel). Frabby (talk) 03:29, 3 October 2013 (PDT)

Hi Frabby,
I've specifically not been doing that to avoid confusion between articles about individual ships and articles about classes of ship - signifiers like (WarShip) are used for the articles on those classes of ship, like McKenna (WarShip) and Liberator (WarShip). If you've made a policy decision then I'll abide by it, but I would argue that to follow your direction will potentially increase confusion between ship and design articles. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 04:40, 3 October 2013 (PDT)
Ugh, you're perfectly right. I plainly forgot about Class articles, and I think I even suggested that myself at one point. So yes, if a disambiguation is required but the specific class isn't known and can't be given, "Vessel" it is. Frabby (talk) 06:26, 3 October 2013 (PDT)
Thinking about this a little more, I think it would serve clarity to name WarShip classes "WarShip class" or "WarShip type" instead of simply "WarShip". My reasoning is that if I've managed to outsmart myself then perhaps things should be tweaked to be clearer. Should be easy enough to implement. Or do you think it's too much hassle for too little gain? Frabby (talk) 02:15, 6 October 2013 (PDT)
To be honest, I'd prefer not to do that - partly because I've added loads and loads of references to WarShips in articles here, particularly planet articles, as a result of my work on the Jihad, Reunification War and Wars of Reaving, so there'd be hundreds of links all pointing through redirects, which is a little inelegant. The other reason I'm not comfortable with it is that I view the articles about the WarShip types to be higher-level articles than the articles of individual ships (which I view as sub-articles) and at the moment, all of the WarShip type articles (and JumpShip and DropShip) have a very consistent and intuitive naming system established. At the moment, if a redlink for an article name comes up, it's quick and easy to just add (WarShip), (JumpShip) or (DropShip) after the type name in the pipe - if we make the change you propose, then authors and editors are going to have to go and check the article name for the type when making edits, which is a longer and more laborious process. It may not be that much longer or that much more laborious, but it's an extra editing step (which could dissaude some people), it means people having to do more checking when setting up disambig pages (and increases the chance of someone getting it wrong by accident) and it feels like it's something that's fixing a problem that isn't really a problem.BrokenMnemonic (talk) 03:33, 6 October 2013 (PDT)

Your favourite localEdit

Hi, I noticed you posts. You have favourite local in Penzance. Are you from Cornwall? I ask because I'm from Hayle. - Dark Jaguar (talk) 04:38, 20 October 2013 (PDT)

I'm not from Cornwall, but ever since I shared a house in uni with someone from Redruth I've been taking holidays in Penwith whenever I get a chance. I stay in Penzance, so my local is basically the Tremenheere on Market Jew Street, although I'm also very fond of the Trewellard Arms in Truthwall. I spent years hiking around Penwith visiting ancient monuments, so I've tried lots of pubs in the area, although I haven't yet managed the CAMRA rail trail   Do you still live in Hayle? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 05:24, 20 October 2013 (PDT)
Unfortunately I don't live there at the moment, my Dad still lives there and I get back whenever I can especially for long summer holidays on the beach.   Though this is not as often as I'd like as work takes me all over the place, although its based in Oxford. I went to College in Penzance before University. I quite liked the pubs on Chapel Street like the Admiral Benbow, and the Dolphin at the bottom of Quay Street and the one on Parade Street whose name escapes me. Although I have to admit I probably went to most while at college. - Dark Jaguar (talk) 06:02, 20 October 2013 (PDT)

Line DeveloperEdit

BM, I saw your note on Doneve's page RE: Herb Beas stepping down as Line Developer. I sent him a note on Facebook asking if he was still working at CGL, and he said yes. So apparently he's just not the BattleTech Overlord anymore.--Mbear(talk) 04:31, 24 October 2013 (PDT)

I saw he was still posting on the forum (not that I am much these days) but he seems... tetchy? Still, hopefully going from being the BattleTech Generalfeldmarschall to one of the Generals will give him a chance to recharge. I know I certainly want to slap a few people around the ear after reading their comments, and he's been putting up with that for a living! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 06:14, 25 October 2013 (PDT)

New ShipsEdit

Wow, you have been busy! Just to show the BT community appreciate your work I'm going to nominate you for this award     - Dark Jaguar (talk) 06:04, 25 October 2013 (PDT)

Thank you   I've actually been on holiday, believe it or not - in fact, I'm sitting in a cafe in Coventry at the moment, ready for a weekend of wargaming - but with time on my hands in the evening, I thought it was time to trawl a few more books for individual ship articles. I've managed to wade through 3-4 more books, so I'm feeling productive! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 06:10, 25 October 2013 (PDT)

More InfoboxesEdit

I dug up more planets that need infoboxes added, if you would be so kind:

Thanks ahead of time. -BobTheZombie (talk) 20:17, 3 November 2013 (PST)

Jump in, Trondheim is done.--Doneve (talk) 00:15, 4 November 2013 (PST)
Whoops, I think I just over-wrote your changes... What're we both doing up so early and editing?   BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:20, 4 November 2013 (PST)
I think we need more coffee ;).--Doneve (talk) 00:43, 4 November 2013 (PST)
I agree completely. I'd like mine with a large Baileys in it... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 01:19, 4 November 2013 (PST)
I found some unsourced system info on Talitha; would you mind checking that out? -BobTheZombie (talk) 15:49, 8 November 2013 (PST)
Talitha came up once before here - I couldn't find anything then, and Doneve suggested it might be from BattleTechnology - I don't have many of the BattleTechnology issues, though. Frabby might know - he collects a lot of the more obscure bits of BattleTech history... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 02:08, 9 November 2013 (PST)
Sifting throught the Talitha page history a bit, I found the data in question was put in by none other than our esteemed User:Revanche. I'll drop a note on his talk page; he's been with us long enough to know about references, after all. :) Frabby (talk) 03:11, 9 November 2013 (PST)


Hi dude, iam back from hospital and can go to work next day yupi, great cleanup of the planetary garrison sections  .--Doneve (talk) 14:06, 24 November 2013 (PST)

Hy Doneve! Great to hear you're out of hospital   How're you feeling?
I spotted yesterday that the garrison listings from the NAIS Atlas hadn't been added to Sarna yet, and with so many units involved in the 4th Succession War, it seemed like a good opportunity to bring lots of garrison entries into line with the Battlecorps standards on unit names. It means setting up a lot of pipe tags, but I have to say, it does feel more like the sourcebooks... although I have no idea what to do with some of the Clan entries. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 14:11, 24 November 2013 (PST)
I feel me very good, but sadly the hot nurses i cant see   at home, but my wife is hotter  . Hm the Clan entries make some headache but i think we found a good way to handle this, i lett you know when i have a idea about this, cheers.--Doneve (talk) 14:24, 24 November 2013 (PST)
Good to hear you're fine Doneve! Two thumbs up from me! :) Frabby (talk) 14:28, 24 November 2013 (PST)


Hi, I am a long time user (viewer) of this site for information that I can not get elsewhere. I have noticed you are one of the few to actively add useful information to the site. I particularly like your articles on Warship and other space vessels. I would like to nominate you for an award, not just for the warships but your contributions in general, and as a thank you from an appreciative user.   --Insidiator (talk) 06:10, 29 November 2013 (PST)

That's very kind, thank you   A lot of that is Doneve's fault, because every time I slow down, he finds a new project for me to work on. I've not been able to get as much done over the last couple of months as I'd like because of work, but I like adding information here - there's so much information that's missing that might be of interest to someone reading. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 08:08, 29 November 2013 (PST)

Planetary GarrisonEdit

Hy BM hope all is well with you, i want to update the planetary garrison section by Historical: War of 3039 from their deployment table page 135, but i want only to use the Pre-War 3038 row, is this ok.--Doneve (talk) 15:12, 30 November 2013 (PST)

That's fine with me   Do you want a hand? I can start working my way up from the bottom of the list... BrokenMnemonic (talk) 02:05, 1 December 2013 (PST)
Okidoky let us rock  .--Doneve (talk) 08:11, 1 December 2013 (PST)
Hi i stop with the garrison update, and go over to update the owner history by the Historical War of 3039 Map (3040) on page 132-133.--Doneve (talk) 13:41, 7 December 2013 (PST)
How far did you get with the garrison update? I'll keep plugging away as best I can - work has been absolutely insane for the last couple of weeks, so I've not been getting much done, but I'm hoping it will quieten down soon. Or my head will explode. Either way, it'll get quieter! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 13:45, 7 December 2013 (PST)

SDS + Castles BrianEdit

Hello BM, I hve access to information which planet have and SDS or Castle Brian. What do you think is better, to show the data at the planet side or as an listing on the Castle Brian/SDS site? Neuling (talk) 14:09, 2 December 2013 (PST)

Hi Neuling, I'd say it's best to do both - have the articles on Castles Brian and SDS networks detail all the worlds that had them, and then also have each planet article for the worlds that have either (or both) also mention it in the article. That way, people reading the planet articles will learn that the worlds had SDS networks and/or Castle Brians, and can then go to the articles on SDS network and Castles Brian and see which other worlds had them. Castles Brian are very much the sort of thing I think qualifies as a notable planetary location or landmark...
Are you using the listing from Historical: Liberation of Terra Volume 1 as the master list? BrokenMnemonic (talk) 00:32, 3 December 2013 (PST)
We have several sources about the Castle Brian and SDS. For example: Jihad Hot Spots: Terra, Field Manual SLDF, Historical: Operation Klondike, Liberation of Terra Vol 1 + 2, Total Chaos, Wars of Reaving. Neuling (talk) 08:46, 3 December 2013 (PST)

Unit NamesEdit

Hello BrokenMnemonic, I will follow the new policy. By the way I tried a new way for the military pages. Please take alook at the DCMS page and tell me your opinion about it. I think for myself the military pages are to big and the structure is not clear enougth. Also I find no entry about the mercenaries of the various factions. They play an important part in the Battletech fiction and they influenced the outcome of many conflicts. Further more the I changed the brigade page at my site from active/inactive to the commands and the actucal status in brackets behind.Neuling (talk) 09:05, 9 December 2013 (PST)

Hi Neuling,
I've had a look at your DCMS page, and there are a lot of things I like about it. I like the way the initial page acts like a portal to the other pages - I'd be tempted to add a simple one or two paragraph overview to expand on the single sentence you have there, though; I'd not want to duplicate what's in the historical pages, but perhaps just give a little more basic detail, such as mentioning that the DCMS grew from the military of the Alliance of Galedon, that the DCMS was founded at a particular date, and that following the deliberate cultural shift in the Draconis Combine towards feudal Japanese stylings under Coordinator Wotsisface, the DCMS - particularly the BattleMech elements therof - developed stylings similar to that of the ancient practise of [i]bushido[/i].
I like the Command Structure page - I think that's a very good thing to have a page on, although I'm not sure how many militaries have been through major restructuring efforts since their original founding.
I'm not as convinced by the Deployment Status page. I think there's a big risk in listing brigades as active or inactive, because such things are only as current as whoever last updated the page. I think that can be a bit limiting. We don't really have an exhaustive list of military formations for all eras - what we know about the various militaries in the Age of War is somewhat limited, for example - otherwise, I'd suggest that it would be better to do would be to list those eras (using the same terminology as the factions page, or something similar) to indicate when we know particular brigades were active. So, you might have the Rasalhague Regulars listed as being active in the Star League Era and the Succession Wars, while the Andurien Hussars might be listed as being active in the Star League Era and Succession Wars only.
The Draconis Elite Strike Teams, Military Academies, Military Ranks and Medals and Decorations pages all look like a good idea to me, although I'd be tempted to try and think of a different page title for the DEST link to make it a standard term across each major armed forces page, something like "special forces".
The mercenary section is a tricky one, too. What we largely know about mercenaries for each of the Great Houses is which units were employed by those Houses at certain points of time - basically, from 3025 onwards. It's not that cut and dried - some units, like the Lexington Combat Group, are units that have been in the employ of one or other state for so long that they are described as being effectively a part of the standing military, or have even been formerly incorporated into a nation's military at one point or another. Others have simply been hired by them at one time or another. I understand why you want to include the section, but I think it's going to be difficult to agree how to implement across a broad concensus of editors.
I have some reservations about the WarShips page. I think that it's very difficult to produce an exhaustive list - yours is missing ships from some of the scenarios, like the DCS Yedo, as an example. I think having a page that shows ships built and designed for that particular military is a good idea, but I'd be inclined to shy away from listing individual ships and what happened to them. It may be worth listing to the categories of individual ships, where people can look at the named ships themselves, although that only really works where all the ships of that class are in service with a particular nation. Alternatively, it may be worth listing the ships in the form of paragraphs giving a breakdown by composition, but I think having lists of names and events would be a big burden to update, and it's something that we've specifically moved away from having on the various ship clas pages. BrokenMnemonic (talk) 13:56, 9 December 2013 (PST)

add this to awards boardEdit

Way to jump on the 'Mech renaming thing. Please add this to your awards board.  --Mbear(talk) 04:29, 19 December 2013 (PST)

Thank you   I just finished a big task at work, so I decided to channel my inner Doneve for a bit! BrokenMnemonic (talk) 04:48, 19 December 2013 (PST)

Stefan AmarisEdit

BM i found one problem, you linked in the infobox to the character not to the class.--Doneve (talk) 13:39, 22 December 2013 (PST)


Hy BM, i wish you and your family merry christmas wishes from germany, hope the day was not to hectic  .--Doneve (talk) 14:09, 24 December 2013 (PST)

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